LF Thoughts on BHA position on Spotted Dog WMA Proposal

[406LIFE]

Here is link: https://www.backcountryhunters.org/montana_bha_comments_on_spotted_dog_wma_grazing

Wondering what the collective here thinks about this.

 

[El Jason]

Looks like a very well thought out and articulated response.

 

[Sytes]

The more public land owners merge with private land owners, the greater our mutual future will expand.

One of FWP’s criteria in selecting a private partner in cooperative grazing management is that they allow hunting on their ranch.
As applied under the circumstances pertaining to Spotted Dog WMA and Hunting District 215, FWP requires that the landowner allow hunting sufficient to prevent elk from concentrating on their property during the general hunting season and that they contribute to the overall harvest prescribed by FWP to meet elk population objectives.

In 2017-2018, FWP met individually with neighbors who expressed interest in grazing their cattle on the WMA. FWP came to these conversations with an interest in improving wildlife habitat on private land by adjusting cattle grazing there, by mutual consent, as well as on the WMA.

It was a lot to ask of the commercial livestock operators and many practical considerations made the arrangement infeasible for most ranchers at that time. Likewise, the requests that commercial livestock operators made of FWP for entering into a mutually beneficial arrangement were often incompatible with FWP’s goals for the WMA.

In the end, this effort did identify a good fit with
the range management goals and interests of the
McQueary Ranch, which contains the largest
block of privately owned, critical winter habitat for
Spotted Dog elk

The WMA lands are not elk winter range. They provide spring (April-May) and fall forage for elk as they migrate between summer and winter ranges. Plant regrowth on previously grazed pastures is attractive to elk in spring and fall.
Portions of the West Fork of Spotted Dog Creek flow through the proposed WMA pasture system and portions of Fred Burr Creek flow through the proposed private pasture system. The yearlong rest provided in the WMA pastures in three of every four years, and in the private pastures in two of every three years would be expected to conserve riparian resources. In addition, cattle would be largely fenced out of the streams and wetlands on the WMA pasture system. Cattle would be grazed in privately owned pastures in August-September, when livestock would linger in shadier and wetter are- as during the hot and dry conditions of late summer, whereas cattle would not be grazed on the WMA past July.

The green portion is the relevant grazing area on the WMA.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I'd be in favor of grazing if the land could support it without negative effects for wildlife. Some grazing is beneficial. It looks as if this particular site is either not currently healthy enough to support grazing based on the Hansen report or it is uncertain whether it can sustain grazing.
I'm not seeing much return for sportsmen given that FWP bears the cost of temporary fencing and we don't know how much land will be opened for hunting in reciprocation.

 

[Schaaf]

Wouldn’t have guessed that putting the needs of the wildlife first in a wildlife management area would be controversial.

 

[MTGomer]

I believe when it was acquired there was a deal with Rock Creek Ranch that they could continue to graze it for a period of time. That time must be up and now the state is looking at leasing it to others, which they are not obligated to do, is that correct?

I wish I could explain what this place was like when it was private. My step dad had the contract to haul logs off of it. I rode along several times. The places where you park now, or even where the main roads from Avon and Elliston come up...were chock full of elk. The first archery season that it was public, before it was in the paper and before anybody really knew about it changing hands was incredible hunting. We pretty much had our own little exclusive ranch to hunt.
We never made it come together in the big herd bulls. The elk would spend all their time in the wide open and with 200+ sets of eyes it was tricky.
I’ve killed or been a part of 6 successful elk hunts on there.
Those days are over.
There are still elk but it gets hammered. Half of Missoula and Helena and a good 2/3rd of Deer Lodge hunts it.
The elk herd may be over objective by social tolerance standards, but certainly not by what the area can support. There are a fraction of the elk on there now than there was in fall 2010.

 

[BigHornRam]

Have never been on the property so can't say if Munther's concerns are overstated or not.

 

[BuzzH]

I believe when it was acquired there was a deal with Rock Creek Ranch that they could continue to graze it for a period of time. That time must be up and now the state is looking at leasing it to others, which they are not obligated to do, is that correct?

I wish I could explain what this place was like when it was private. My step dad had the contract to haul logs off of it. I rode along several times. The places where you park now, or even where the main roads from Avon and Elliston come up...were chock full of elk. The first archery season that it was public, before it was in the paper and before anybody really knew about it changing hands was incredible hunting. We pretty much had our own little exclusive ranch to hunt.
We never made it come together in the big herd bulls. The elk would spend all their time in the wide open and with 200+ sets of eyes it was tricky.
I’ve killed or been a part of 6 successful elk hunts on there.
Those days are over.
There are still elk but it gets hammered. Half of Missoula and Helena and a good 2/3rd of Deer Lodge hunts it.
The elk herd may be over objective by social tolerance standards, but certainly not by what the area can support. There are a fraction of the elk on there now than there was in fall 2010.

Wayyy back in the mid 80's...it was even better hunting. We hunted the northern end of it via some private. Was loaded with both mule deer and elk.

Opening day 1984, 3 buck mule deer, 2 bull elk. Killed my first bull elk that day. Lost access when the ranch we hunted was leased by the Becks.

As to the specifics, while I haven't read the Hansen report, I'm assuming that the report was put together by Paul Hansen, who I worked with/for in the late 90's. His riparian assessments are pretty well spot on and used quite a bit all across the NW United States as well as in Canada. His riparian habitat classification is also heavily utilized by various agencies. I used his system of riparian classification on several thousand riparian stream segments across a large portion of Montana and the Western side of both Dakotas.

I also agree with Shaaf that it shouldn't be too much to ask to give wildlife the priority in a state WMA.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Have never been on the property so can't say if Munther's concerns are overstated or not.

So why weigh in?

 

[BigHornRam]

So why weigh in?

Because I've seen a lot of similar commentary pertaining to public land forest management that is highly overstated and biased. OP asked for thoughts and at this time I would like to see more information before forming an opinion.

 

[BigHornRam]

Link to MT FWP's proposal. Doesn't sound controversial from what I read. Rest private neighboring winter range 2 out of 3 years in exchange for grazing public spring and fall range ground 1 out of 4 years.

Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks :: FWP Looking for Input on Proposed Cooperative Grazing System for Part of Spotted Dog WMA and Adjacent Private Lands

fwp.mt.gov

"A total of 2,800-acres (approximately 8 percent) of the WMA would be available for grazing over a four-year period. Each year, 600-750 acres of the WMA would be grazed and then “rested” from grazing for the subsequent three years. In exchange, two-thirds of the 2,100 acres of adjacent McQueary Ranch lands would be rested from grazing annually to allow for growth of critical winter elk forage and to foster more diverse wildlife habitat.
The proposal, if approved by the Fish and Wildlife Commission in April, would remain in effect for six years beginning in early summer 2019."

Improving the winter range is absolutely putting the needs of the local wildlife first.

Would be best to visit both properties to see proposal first hand.

 

[ElkHuntingPastor]

@MTGomer - It was a special place indeed; my Dad & I were able to hunt it with some landowner friends who own along the southern side pre 2010 - There were bulls creeping up into the 340 range & lots of elk. It was special!
There was one winter where a bachelor group of over 50 bulls was hanging out together; wish it could still be that way!
Spotted Dog gets hammered.