Kids in school.. Oh MY!!!

[Moosie]

I think you have a chip from your shoulder about it.

One on Each shoulder Greeny .. one on Each.

Was the first bull as nice as the One he ended up with ? That was a Nice bull for sure.

"working toward and completing a degree, is great achievement."

I agree, 100%. ...... and so is picking up Dog POOP. Both cases you get a sense of "great achievement" I guess.

More than 50 percent of students at four-year schools and more than 75 percent at two-year colleges lacked the skills to perform complex literacy tasks.

That means they could not interpret a table about exercise and blood pressure, understand the arguments of newspaper editorials, compare credit card offers with different interest rates and annual fees or summarize results of a survey about parental involvement in school.

With the above statement I'm taking it alot of people that post here went to a 4 year school ?

Buzz, you're right, We all have different ideas what makes life worth liveing. To me I wouldn't have a life without kids. You see life different and don't agree with me on that do you ? You like working and knowing about grass and weeds. I get enjoyment out of Cadd, Construction, and seeing things built.

There is are always people happier, richer, Smarter, and always "more righter" then us. Then there are those that just think so.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

I agree, 100%. ...... and so is picking up Dog POOP. Both cases you get a sense of "great achievement" I guess.

Being that I've picked up tons of dog poop AND earned a degree I can say there's no comparison.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Moosie,
The way you grab a few random examples of "successful" people who don't have college degrees and try to extrapolate a theory that "collage" is wothless is an example of not understanding Stats, Scientific Method, and other "worthless" stuff they teach you in "collage".

We all know JR Simplot was an 8th grade drop-out who owns 1/2 the state. But if you look at the little Memory Chip company he invested in, their CEO started on the production line with all the other non-degreed production workers, but he was able to raise up out of the production to CEO WITH a degree. My guess is if you look at 90% of the VPs and above out there, you will find a sheepskin hanging on the wall. And very similar at most Fortune 500 companies.

Doors definitely get opened by having a degree. I know that I have thrown hundreds of resume's in the trash can because the applicant didn't have a degree. Why would I want to waste my time interviewing people without degrees when I have plenty of choices of people WITH degrees? The people with degrees have proven that they have the ability to learn, they are motivated by something internal, and might possibly be able to adjust to changing environments.

 

[Moosie]

but he was able to raise up out of the production to CEO WITH a degree.

He would have raised up without a Degree. I'm guessing it was in his nature to do so. (High Midiclorians you know.. )

I'm not knocking "collage". I love pictures of me.... And with the stats Provided above I'm glad people are going there. Because even with a 4 year School they can't "still can't find their butt with both hands".

I think 2 things, And maybe if I went to School longer I "wood" think different but :

1. People in General are lazy.
2. Someone with a Degree doesn't mean they know what they are doing.

Alot of times 1/2 are one in the same.

Jose', does your Dad have a "collage" edjication ?

......On a side note, Did you see inthe Paper were "DON Simplot" just Filed ?

 

[Bambistew]

Doors definitely get opened by having a degree. I know that I have thrown hundreds of résumé’s in the trash can because the applicant didn't have a degree. Why would I want to waste my time interviewing people without degrees when I have plenty of choices of people WITH degrees? The people with degrees have proven that they have the ability to learn, they are motivated by something internal, and might possibly be able to adjust to changing environments.

No offence Moosie, but the only people we hire without degree's are CADD operators... and only then they need at least a few years of experience or they go in the trash too. I haven’t seen any of them spending their money like water either... and 9 out of 10 need you to hold their hand to get their work done. Also Moosie didn’t you go to school to get your foot in the door of drafting? I realize that you have been successful, but you are an exception rather than the rule.

While I think I could take either side on this one because I really didn't care much for school, I realized that if I really wanted to achieve my goals, and one day work for myself at the level I want to be at. I would need a degree to get my foot in the door. Last time I looked they didn't hand out professional engineering certifications to many high school drop outs. I know probably 40-50 PE's, and of all of them, I can think of one that doesn't have a 4 year degree in engineering. She has a degree in history of all things, but worked in the engineering industry for 12 years before deciding she should take the test. I believe she had to have 8 years of experience before she could qualify anyway, as opposed to 4 years with a degree and the EIT.

I think by and large that college is the best way for the majority of people to exceed in life. Sure there are a few that can make due with any, but they are the exception rather than the rule. There are thousands that can’t even make it through high school, that’s their choice and the rest of us have to pick up the slack for them. Notice how much you pay in taxes…

I would be interested to know what the demographic 'majors' are of the above referenced stats. I took the hardest math classes offered in high school, while 90% of the other students took the easiest that they could ‘get by’ with and still graduate. If anything that stuff should be taught at the high school level rather than blaming college. I would be willing to bet that if you asked the same number of people the same age with no college education, you’d find those states to be pitifully lower. Lots and lots of people don’t understand interest rates, both college and non college material. I whole heartedly agree that this nation is getting dumber every year though. There is really nothing worth striving for, including education.

Chaser, the way I'm reading your response... is that what you are seeing at Tech? If so I'd like to know what classes/majors you are basing this off of. So if this is correct you should be at the top of all your class right?

Also I’m interested as to why you are enrolled? If you didn’t need it the first time around why are you there now?

 

[waterboy]

Education has the ability to expose a person to different ideas and disciplines than what they may not get at home or anywhere else, yet it does not substitute for common sense and "real world" experience.

Sure there are people who need the education to suceed in life, but I believe that most people who succeed would do so without the education as well. Sooner or later an opportunity would present itself, and they would realize that with hard work, they would make it.

As for the nation getting dumber?? I am not so sure, but what I do know is that disciplines are becoming so confined, that there seems to be an expert for everything.

 

[ELKCHSR]

Bambistew

Chaser, the way I'm reading your response... is that what you are seeing at Tech? If so I'd like to know what classes/majors you are basing this off of. So if this is correct you should be at the top of all your class right?

As a tech school goes, that’s a different topic all together than a regular university, or school of the sort.

These schools are geared to training in a specific industry, getting kids in and out, there not designed to get kids in, let them hang out for 4-6-8-10 years taking all sorts of classes that have nothing to do with real life, Techs really streamline some of the 'on the job training' needed to help get into that industry, most of the excess 'stuff' that’s not necessary for the chosen industry is run thru a tech.

I've been thru two tech schools, and for a short time a university, so understand the inner workings of both, currently, I'm back in a University. (but not as a "Kid")

In the tech collages, they teach the real life tools to get a kid in the job market, universities aren't geared for this.

I suppose I should have been far more succinct in my statements, but it is very hard to, and get out every little nuance that some here would like to see so they can try picking apart what you say. (Kinda silly when you look at their antics, but that’s who they are, no matter how small and simpleton it is)

I have also been in the business world, processed raw resources, an entrepreneur, work with and for the government, worked on large industrial projects from ground up, served my time in the military, and in many varied types of trades, no office jobs though .

What I have found is that a lot of these kids who have university collage, and hired into a position some where, look down on, thumbing their noses at those who knowand understand far more in that same industry position, but were hired there because they produce a piece of paper they don’t understand.

It's a cultural reason these people can get hired into these positions in such a way, thats why it makes it hard for any one else to buck the system. Culture is hard to beat, since it's so ingrained.

No matter how much it hurts the feelings of a few on this boards I don't think much of 'most' kids in a learning environment they are not mentally ready for, especially because of the disdain and low regard these same "kids" have for others (proof is demonstrated on this board almost every day to this truth) throughout their life.

It boils down to the fact that the universities want these young minds of mush, to fill seats and warm benches becaue their a business and there to make a profit, not worried what they do when they leave the building (unlike what I've witnessed at a tech school).

Yes, these same individuals went into university trades related to their chosen degree . (Well, I don't know how getting a forestry degree has much to do in conjunction in dealing with wet lands in areas that are looked at as high altitude desert regions, especially where forestry products processed and sold are done so as fence posts and rails, then having the gall to think because of some training 20 years ago is relevant to his knowledge he possesses today could be more important or relevant and better than any one else with knowledge in the forestry industry and worked in the industry for the same amount of time, would be any less relevant, but I digress and admit it's really not that important here).

One can go into higher places of learning, gaining immensely from the extra knowledge, with out the snobby elitist attitude acquired by some "Kids" upon exiting, usually these individuals also have some maturity before they enter, and I would say, finish with far more then the "Kid"...

Education has the ability to expose a person to different ideas and disciplines than what they may not get at home or anywhere else, yet it does not substitute for common sense and "real world" experience

Waterboy, this is perfect

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Whoa now that's deep. I couldn't understand 90% of it, but it's definately deep.

ELKCHSR, what's your GPA? Let me guess... that doesn't matter either.

English Writing 101 has a lot to do with 'real life'. I will make sure my kids master this basic skill in H.S. so they don't end up making themselves look so ignorant.

In the tech collages, they teach the real life tools to get a kid in the job market, universities aren't geared for this.

Is that so....
2004 Graduates from MSU College of Engineering
BS degrees -- 95% employment avg starting salary of $41,975
MS degrees -- 100% employment avg starting salary of $47,524

 

[BuzzH]

Cheese said, "(Well, I don't know how getting a forestry degree has much to do in conjunction in dealing with wet lands in areas that are looked at as high altitude desert regions, especially where forestry products processed and sold are done so as fence posts and rails, then having the gall to think because of some training 20 years ago is relevant to his knowledge he possesses today could be more important or relevant and better than any one else with knowledge in the forestry industry and worked in the industry for the same amount of time, would be any less relevant, but I digress and admit it's really not that important here)."

You see cheese, you just dont get it.

My degree is in Forestry/Resource Management. I took many classes beyond just Forestry related classes like silviculture. I also took several range classes, several wildlife courses, several Resource Policy classes, wildlands fuels management, wildfire management, hydrology, soils, riparian management, watershed management, etc. etc.

I didnt waste my money taking elective courses that would not do me any good. I added many additional courses that were not required for my major, but classes that I thought would be helpful in future positions. Its paid off.

Thats why I held a job managing fisheries/riparian/wetlands for TEI. I had a broad college background which set me apart from most other graduates. Its also why I can find work in a wide range of resource related fields. Combine my college education with 21 years of resource management work experience and I'll be competitive in most jobs I apply for.

Like anything, college is what you make of it.

I'll give you one hint...you should have payed attention in your grade school writing class.

 

[Oak]

I think Oscar is just getting worried at the prospect of paying tuition for all the Moosie, Jr's running around.

 

[Washington Hunter]

I think Oscar is just getting worried at the prospect of paying tuition for all the Moosie, Jr's running around.

LOL

That very well could be the case!

 

[MarvB]

My gawd I've got the same degree as Buzz...he must have had far better electives in hunting though as his success there definitely kicks my azzzz

WH...better watch that college tuition as well there buddy, ya done opened the barn door yourself

I've got to concur with what has been said above, college just isn't about the "degree" it has far more to do with learning HOW to learn (and adapt) to what life is going to throw your way...and some of that chit do stick!
What I'm doing now is far removed from my piece of parchment but I seriously doubt I'd be doing it if it wasn't for the background that going through school gave me.

 

[Washington Hunter]

Marv, yes true...but then I've only got one and he's got how many? Is it 4? or 5?

 

[MarvB]

I think he's lost count as well

Oscar's counting on basketball scholarships...and is providing his own team!

 

[Washington Hunter]

Yeah I'm thinking it's 4 and they're working on 5, gotta have that girl you know!

 

[Bambistew]

Chaser... I thought you would have figured out that I meant Montana Tech and not a 'vo tech' school when I said Tech... I thought you were getting some sort of engineering degree there? Is that a wrong assumption? I find it intersting that a student of the School of Mines would think that Tech ment a vo tech...

I'd still be interested to know the answers to the questions.

Maybe it was because I was like 90% of the other students up there, i.e. young, but I really didn't think that I was wasting my time, nor do I remember seeing many people that shouldn't be there, other than a bunch of 40-50 year olds that asked to many damn questions, and had trouble following along cause they had been out of school for so long.

If you're basing your assumptions off freshman, sure I could see that, but every year there were a lot of kids that ended up either transferring or quitting all together. Most of them couldn't hack it and that’s the bottom line, its no diffrent than a job. I'll bet most would have loved to see if they could figure out the interest rates on a CC offer vs... the weeding classes likeChemistry and Calculus. IMO those were by far the hardest classes I took to get my degree as an adult film fluffer.

Personally I think anyone that doesn't use the school system to its full potential i.e. going to some form of post high school education is really setting themselves up for a life of dead end jobs, and even Vo Tech schools are geared to set people up to be professional ‘dish washer’ and nothing more... Talk about being a drone when you graduate. Those students know absolutely nothing besides how to turn a wrench, or add up receipts.

I still can't figure out why you posted this article... You've been in and out of post high school education how many times? And then you say that most of the kids don’t have any business being there??? I’m confused. It sounds like you’re being a hypocrite to me.

Like I said before, there are a few exceptions to the rules, and those people will succeed either way. But by and large if you want to live comfortably and have some sort of job security your best option is to buckle down, spend 4-5 years of your life and get a degree in something useful that there is a demand for.

P.S.

I 100% stand behind the opinion that our society as a whole is getting dumber! While I agree that there are a lot of people that specialize in certain things, that doesn’t make up for the fact that 50% of the high school students in Maryland can’t name all 52 states if given a map or is it 53.

 

[waterboy]

the weeding classes like Chemistry and Calculus. IMO those were by far the hardest classes I took to get my degree as an adult film fluffer.

Bambi,

You got hosed, you did not need an engineering degree to be a fluffer. You overachiever.

I have to agree with you. Obviously, there are outliers that make it big without much education, and we hear about their successes time and time again, but I relate that to wishful thinking and winning the lottery. Statistics do not lie, those who further their education OVERALL make more money and go farther.

What is a shame is that most high schools are geared toward college prep nowadays, so those that do not continue their education really cheat themselves.

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

Montana Tech

Is Elkchsr going to MT Tech?

In the tech collages, they teach the real life tools to get a kid in the job market, universities aren't geared for this.

FACTS FROM MT TECH's 2004 Graduates
OVERALL PLACEMENT = 99%
Arts and Sciences 98%
Engineering 100%

AVERAGE STARTING SALARIES
Arts and Sciences $37,663
Engineering $49,737

Signing Bonuses: In addition to salaries, signing bonuses for Arts & Sciences Degrees ranged from $1,300-$6,000; and Engineering Degrees signing bonuses ranged from $1,000 to $15,000.

 

[Bambistew]

I could have sworn he said he was... Maybe he's just pretending... I hope so!

 

[Frequently Banned Troll]

MT Tech is a 4-year "collage" or university, but I see how that could be cornfusing... unless you were enrolled.