Kentucky Elk in Crisis

[Conical]

Howdy folks,
So I grew up in Washington State, deer and elk hunting in Washington and Idaho. I'm also a life-long houndsman started running bear, bobcat and coon in the early 90s.
Watching the political disasters in Washington State, and seeing the deer and Elk herds plummet, it gave me a good perspective on improper game management.

My wife and I moved to Kentucky in 2021 excited for a new adventures in life. There were two big things I wanted to see and do. First was run bear with my dogs again. And second get involved with the elk in Kentucky. What I found here was not what I was expecting.

Now the elk zone in Kentucky is a big area, 4.4 million acres. 95% of that is privately owned. But the elk live on and thrive on these strip mines. You won't find very many elk at all in the big hardwood forests. They're just isn't any feed under that canopy. So in these open strip mines, there is a vast amount of feed for these animals. Deer, elk and Bear.
What I wasn't expecting, was this insane number of black bears in this area. The kdfw just came out with an estimate of 1,500 black bears in the state. Just in the elk Zone that would be one bear for every 3,000 acres. And they just touted that they think they have 13,000 elk now in the state.

With all the people I've met in Kentucky. All the hunters I've talked to, Facebook groups and everyone I've had any interaction with. Plus with all my personal observations spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours out in the Kentucky Appalachian mountains. These numbers could easily be reversed. As of right now Kentucky is looking at the lowest elk harvest since the conception of the elk program. At its peak it was giving out 940 elk tags, with an annual harvest of 600 to 650 elk per year. When the bears came in from virginia, West virginia, and Tennessee. They found this completely undisturbed resource. The calf elk survival rate before the bears showed up was at 90%. Right now it is hovering around 25 to 30%.
Last year out of 500 hunters, there was 187 elk harvested. That was the lowest harvest since 2006. As of right now after the rifle bull season, and the early archery either sex hunt the harvest is sitting at 87 elk. 78 bulls and 9 cows. Kentucky is looking at a harvest of around 125 elk this year.

Coincidentally in 2024 and 2025 hunters have harvested more bear than elk, with an extremely limited season. They only have a 3-day rifle season. The archery season is a joke as well. And a 5-day Hound kill season in Bear Zone 1&2 Where I would say 70% of the bears are. And a 9 day hound kill season in Bear Zone 2.
Where I run bear with my hounds it is extremely common to see four to six bears a day. The most we saw in 2 hours in an evening is 10. I am running my dogs on a 10,000 acre tract of strip mine area. With all of our trail cameras and personal observation 200 bears in that area would be an understatement.

It took me 3 years to see my first elk in Kentucky. This summer I finally saw my first small band of elk, a few cows and young bulls about a dozen. No calves. I have not seen a calf since I moved here. I know where there's about five or six different small groups of elk throughout the mountains that I have hunted in.

This is an incredible psyop coming from the fish and wildlife department in Kentucky. There are so many people with their hands in the pot pertaining to these elk tags that they have completely misrepresented the elk. They have all these programs with large mining properties, where they give out free elk tags so hunters can have access to these lands.

The Rocky mountain Elk foundation really needs to get involved in this situation. The bear population in the next 5 years is going to triple. Every sow has three to four cubs. We have thousands and thousands of trail camera pictures of bears. So does every other guy in these mountains trying to find even a deer still to hunt. The deer have moved out of the mountains. Staying close to the farms, and lowlands away from the bears the best they can.

Hopefully the right person reads this because no one in Kentucky that has any authority is going to do anything about this.
If you think of Kentucky it's like going back to the late '80s or early 90s. If you're used to living in the western or eastern hemisphere of the country. This is a wild place, and very lawless. I believe the corruption in the fishing game department is above and beyond.

Sorry for the long read but hopefully this reaches somebody's attention. Thank you

 

[Commutair]

I hunted in KY in 2023. It was an extremely hard hunt. It was thick with autumn olive back then. I do believe there is a lot of poaching going on. I made some great friends there. Locals. They are some of the most genuine people I’ve met. I have heard from my guide buddy he saw only 3 elk. They are sweating this big time. I didn’t know about the bear problem. I’m gonna have to go out there and get some bears. Keep me updated on KY.

 

[buckbull]

Everyone wants to blame predators but its almost always habitat. Mining reclamation maturing causing degradation of elk habitat seems reasonable to me. There have been zero ehd elk deaths reported this year.

AI's take:

1. Kentucky Elk Herd Population Trend
The elk herd in Kentucky is stable to thriving and stands as the largest elk population east of the Mississippi River.
* Following a successful restoration program that began in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the herd has grown to over 10,000 animals across a 16-county restoration zone in southeastern and eastern Kentucky.
* The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources (KDFWR) carefully manages the population through a regulated random lottery draw system (offering around 500 permits annually) to keep the population balanced with the local habitat.
2. The Effect of Bears on Kentucky's Elk
Unlike western states where grizzly bears and dense populations of black bears heavily influence elk recruitment, bears have a minimal to negligible impact on Kentucky’s elk herd:
* Limited Predator Pressure: While black bears are present in parts of eastern Kentucky's elk range, their numbers and densities are not high enough to act as a primary limiting factor on elk population growth.
* Thriving Habitat: The main constraints or pressures on Kentucky elk historically relate more to habitat changes (such as the maturation of reclaimed surface-mined lands) and Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) rather than large-scale mammalian predation.
Overall, Kentucky's elk herd has experienced tremendous long-term success without facing significant suppression from native predators like bears.

 

[EKYHunter]

Which county are you in @Conical? I live in Johnson County myself. You are spot on on that our elk herd is in trouble. With almost all mining now gone, strips are growing up and not the great habitat that they once were. Most hunters have been asking for a pause in the elk hunts for a while, but it falls on deaf ears. There’s just too much money to be made in the elk draw for it to stop is my opinion. But the resource is in trouble. I will say that my observations re deer are the opposite of yours. I will also say that in some places, the elk have adapted to living in the woods. I appreciate your posting this and your perspective.

 

[Conical]

Which county are you in @Conical? I live in Johnson County myself. You are spot on on that our elk herd is in trouble. With almost all mining now gone, strips are growing up and not the great habitat that they once were. Most hunters have been asking for a pause in the elk hunts for a while, but it falls on deaf ears. There’s just too much money to be made in the elk draw for it to stop is my opinion. But the resource is in trouble. I will say that my observations re deer are the opposite of yours. I will also say that in some places, the elk have adapted to living in the woods. I appreciate your posting this and your perspective.

I live in Jackson county, and I have observations in clay, Leslie, Martin, Bell, and Harlan counties.
We just finished up our Zone one early bear hunt with hounds and we ran a ton of bears in 5 days. We harvested Three bears during the week with my hounds.
So I didn't know that there was an elk preserve in Pineville. And we were driving through The preserve or right on the edge of it to get to our bear hunting area most days. We were seeing these nice looking elk herds. We would see a total of about 50 to 100 elk along a series of about 10 Fields spanning about 3 Miles. We would see the same elk every day as we came in early in the morning. The bull to cow ratio looks pretty good. And in the 5 days that I drove through there. I saw two calves, that's it. The bears are so thick in there it's unbelievable.

The locals that I have been hunting with, told me about 3 years ago when the Rocky mountain Elk foundation came through and was transporting all the elk out of state and they also moved about 250 elk over to mccreary county. That they rounded up the remaining herds in the area and they put them in this 22,000 acre preserve. I can tell you there are literally just a handful of elk outside of this preserve. And I asked well how many elk do you think are in the preserve. He told me in their observation they think there's about 400 elk left in there.

 

[Conical]

Everyone wants to blame predators but its almost always habitat. Mining reclamation maturing causing degradation of elk habitat seems reasonable to me. There have been zero ehd elk deaths reported this year.

AI's take:

1. Kentucky Elk Herd Population Trend
The elk herd in Kentucky is stable to thriving and stands as the largest elk population east of the Mississippi River.
* Following a successful restoration program that began in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the herd has grown to over 10,000 animals across a 16-county restoration zone in southeastern and eastern Kentucky.
* The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources (KDFWR) carefully manages the population through a regulated random lottery draw system (offering around 500 permits annually) to keep the population balanced with the local habitat.
2. The Effect of Bears on Kentucky's Elk
Unlike western states where grizzly bears and dense populations of black bears heavily influence elk recruitment, bears have a minimal to negligible impact on Kentucky’s elk herd:
* Limited Predator Pressure: While black bears are present in parts of eastern Kentucky's elk range, their numbers and densities are not high enough to act as a primary limiting factor on elk population growth.
* Thriving Habitat: The main constraints or pressures on Kentucky elk historically relate more to habitat changes (such as the maturation of reclaimed surface-mined lands) and Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) rather than large-scale mammalian predation.
Overall, Kentucky's elk herd has experienced tremendous long-term success without facing significant suppression from native predators like bears.

 

[EKYHunter]

I live in Jackson county, and I have observations in clay, Leslie, Martin, Bell, and Harlan counties.
We just finished up our Zone one early bear hunt with hounds and we ran a ton of bears in 5 days. We harvested Three bears during the week with my hounds.
So I didn't know that there was an elk preserve in Pineville. And we were driving through The preserve or right on the edge of it to get to our bear hunting area most days. We were seeing these nice looking elk herds. We would see a total of about 50 to 100 elk along a series of about 10 Fields spanning about 3 Miles. We would see the same elk every day as we came in early in the morning. The bull to cow ratio looks pretty good. And in the 5 days that I drove through there. I saw two calves, that's it. The bears are so thick in there it's unbelievable.

The locals that I have been hunting with, told me about 3 years ago when the Rocky mountain Elk foundation came through and was transporting all the elk out of state and they also moved about 250 elk over to mccreary county. That they rounded up the remaining herds in the area and they put them in this 22,000 acre preserve. I can tell you there are literally just a handful of elk outside of this preserve. And I asked well how many elk do you think are in the preserve. He told me in their observation they think there's about 400 elk left in there.

They took some elk off Czar Coal in Martin County over to the preserve you’re talking about. Czar had the best elk herd in the state and one time but they’ve chose to stop hunting for 5 years. Czar still has elk, but nothing like it used to have.

 

[Conical]

Everyone wants to blame predators but its almost always habitat. Mining reclamation maturing causing degradation of elk habitat seems reasonable to me. There have been zero ehd elk deaths reported this year.

AI's take:

1. Kentucky Elk Herd Population Trend
The elk herd in Kentucky is stable to thriving and stands as the largest elk population east of the Mississippi River.
* Following a successful restoration program that began in the late 1990s and early 2000s, the herd has grown to over 10,000 animals across a 16-county restoration zone in southeastern and eastern Kentucky.
* The Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources (KDFWR) carefully manages the population through a regulated random lottery draw system (offering around 500 permits annually) to keep the population balanced with the local habitat.
2. The Effect of Bears on Kentucky's Elk
Unlike western states where grizzly bears and dense populations of black bears heavily influence elk recruitment, bears have a minimal to negligible impact on Kentucky’s elk herd:
* Limited Predator Pressure: While black bears are present in parts of eastern Kentucky's elk range, their numbers and densities are not high enough to act as a primary limiting factor on elk population growth.
* Thriving Habitat: The main constraints or pressures on Kentucky elk historically relate more to habitat changes (such as the maturation of reclaimed surface-mined lands) and Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease (EHD) rather than large-scale mammalian predation.
Overall, Kentucky's elk herd has experienced tremendous long-term success without facing significant suppression from native predators like bears.

From AI.

Key Factors in Kentucky's Elk and Bear Trends

• Bear Population Growth: Black bear numbers and harvests have grown steadily in eastern Kentucky, leading to expanded bear hunting seasons as the species is increasingly managed as a nuisance or growing population. [1, 2]
• Elk Harvest and Permit Reductions: Elk harvests have trended downward after the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife Resources reduced permit numbers, though the state's historical restoration zone spans a 16-county area in eastern Kentucky. [1, 2]
• Predation and Recruitment Pressures: Black bears are known to prey on elk calves during the spring, which can impact elk recruitment alongside other challenges like habitat changes and brainworm parasites. [1, 2]
• Management Responses: Wildlife managers have adjusted season structures and increased bear harvest quotas to address growing bear numbers and balance predator-prey dynamics in the region. [1]
  • Elk Calf Survival Rates: Biologists have noted that before black bears naturally recolonized eastern Kentucky from neighboring states, elk calf survival rates were sitting at roughly 90%. [1]
  • The Impact of Predation: Following the expansion of the bear population, those elk calf survival numbers plummeted to between 25% and 30%. Bears are highly effective predators of vulnerable newborns during the spring calving season. [1]
  • The Shift in Harvests: Historically, Kentucky gave out up to 940 elk tags with an annual harvest of 600 to 650 elk. Today, total tags are strictly capped at 500, and recent seasons have seen historically low elk harvest numbers while the state’s thriving bear population continues to expand by 3% to 7% annually. [1, 2, 3]
• Because the bear population has grown into a stable, self-sustaining presence of an estimated 1,000 to 1,500 animals, wildlife managers face the difficult task of balancing the protection of a celebrated elk restoration project against the biological reality of a dominant native predator.

 

[Conical]

They took some elk off Czar Coal in Martin County over to the preserve you’re talking about. Czar had the best elk herd in the state and one time but they’ve chose to stop hunting for 5 years. Czar still has elk, but nothing like it used to have.

Yeah I bear hunted the new Pocahontas WMA last year. And we did pretty good on bears over there. That's a giant area. But we never saw a single elk. I only saw two tracks. I was talking to an ole boy and he said the same thing. In 2016 the place was crawling with elk. He said now they are just no elk left at all. Just a few stragglers.