James Swan on long distance hunting shots

[thecrittergitter]

I keep detailed journals and after reading this thread, I looked at how many pronghorn, deer, and elk I've killed at ranges over 300 yards.

Out of 242 big-game animals..............
.

Chit, and we all thought it was the wolves killing all the game........turns out its Buzz
lol

 

[The Hedgehog]

at 900 yards there is no chance of detection. There is no pursuit. There is no connection with the animal, and therefore, there is no hunt. You could be sitting in a bar with music, conversation, and a rifle on the rail overlooking the mountains and have a similar opportunity.

Could someone please direct me to this bar?

 

[elk_hunter]

Fin, you need to get one........

 

[cowboy]

I am not shooting, unless I am comfortable that the conditions, distance, shot angle, my experience, my firearm, my ammo, and my excitement level will allow for a clean kill. Pretty easy answer for me. It is not a set distance, but a situation-dependent answer. What I am comfortable with, others may not be. What others are comfortable with, I might not be.
I shoot a lot. Ammo is free for me. I purposely go out and practice at a bench in terrible conditions. I do so to learn what my bullet/rifle do in those conditions..

That answer above is as honest and forthright as anyone could possible answer. And "NO" I was not insinuating that you would do something off camera that you would not do with camera rolling. If you thought I was insinuating otherwise you have my apology - I AM SORRY.

The whole point of my above comment was that there is no "Set Yardage" that is ethical for EVERYONE. I have been sending lead downrange at above average distance since long before there were any TV shows that promoted it so I do have some experience in that dept.. When I read the article where the author started his ethics of LR shooting by using #7 steel shot(A dove load) I knew where he was headed. Then to cite a chairman of an ethics committee, Prof. of an Environmental Science program, and then to finish with a priest that is Chairman of Philosophy Dept would be like asking Buzz how many brain cells were functioning in Helena.

There is more than a few people in this and surrounding States that are capable of more than 90% chance of a dead hit at some pretty far distances - and they know when it is possible within conditions.

All I am implying is that with today's equipment and technology and the right nut behind the bolt, an ethical shot maybe isn't measured in yardage that is equal for everyone and if a person is capable maybe he shouldn't have to apologize or deny it - because he more than likely earned it.

 

[shoots-straight]

All I am implying is that with today's equipment and technology and the right nut behind the bolt, an ethical shot maybe isn't measured in yardage that is equal for everyone and if a person is capable maybe he shouldn't have to apologize or deny it - because he more than likely earned it.

I think that's the point. Today many people are capable of making those long range shots. Technology has now made, what was once called hunting, now into trophy shooting.

What will the sum of all this will lead to? I think the answer will not be a good for the sport, or whatever we call it.

 

[MTbowhunter84]

I think that's the point. Today many people are capable of making those long range shots. Technology has now made, what was once called hunting, now into trophy shooting.

What will the sum of all this will lead to? I think the answer will not be a good for the sport, or whatever we call it.

Very true and accurate. I'm to the point I leave the rifle at home, but at the same time I have saw archery becoming more of a long distance sport as well. I began bow hunting to get closer to game, and have started to become more successful at it over time. I have friends that will routinely shoot out to 80 and 90 yards and feel accomplished. To me that's not the point. I have extended my range with 100% confidence out to 60 and will shoot no further. There is nothing wrong with practicing at those ranges, but in the field doesn't seem reasonable. The closer the better in my book.

 

[Mica Man]

Long range "hunting" has never really interested me, but then again I prefer to use my bow. I once saw a guy on t.v. shoot an elk at two yards! Yep two yards! Now that is what I call an impresive shot!.

 

[Sytes]

I do not have a high $ scope that clicks with the range finder found distance... yet.

Currently my max comfort range is around 250. If/when I choose to make that large step into high end scope quality I am sure that comfort max range will increase.

I have my beliefs about ethical shots and range. Gotta love those guys popping off rounds with a forward observer ranging the next shot based on ground impact. (Humor intended)
Good article.

 

[jabber]

I know everyone loves their range finders, but what if you banned any that read past 900 yards?

I feel we are our own worst enemies at times. Long range shooting at game gives me that uneasy feeling.

Typical response. "I can't do it or don't like it, so it needs to be banned"

 

[earthwalker]

Where do we draw the line? Self guided projectiles? https://share.sandia.gov/news/resources/news_releases/bullet/

Money buys technology, technology leads to "success", and rich fat slobs who shoot fenced in game at long distances become the public image of the "sportsman".

 

[noharleyyet]

rich fat slobs who shoot fenced in game at long distances

Wut?

 

[Zach]

It seems the more variables you add, in long range shooting, the higher the probability for error.

As you add distance does that potential go up or down?

 

[sbhooper]

Once in a while on the long range shows, they take close shots, but it seems to me that they try to position themselves to make the long shots for TV. Being able to take a long shot to kill a wounded, escaping animal is a very good skill, but making it your norm just for bragging rights is rediculous.

Antelope are probably the most likely to be in a position where a long shot would be more of a possibility. I personally cannot see any reason to take extreme shots at elk. The "hunting" part of the sport is definitely fading away. It is becoming a game of target shooting, as the animal is so far away that he is not even aware of what is going on. I have been hunting for many years and have never killed a big-game animal over 300 yards. It just plain is not necessary if you are a "hunter" and not a just a shooter.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

I likely owe a portion of my skin to some pretty amazing shooters over the last decade, and I have no doubt that these guys are capable of taking game at ranges in excess of 900-1000yds. However, my personal values and ethics lead me to believe that this type of shooting is a different "sport" than what I practice.

On the rare occasion that I watch a long range hunting show, it seems to me that it is more about the validation of what they practice on the range, "not only can I hit the target on the range, but I can kill a deer at the same range". In a way I can under stand this. Before I ever saw combat, I wondered "do all these battle drills and training we do really work?", and I was excited to see combat to feel the validation of all the blood sweat and tears I had expended in preparation. Once I experienced the reality of combat, saw the aftermath, and realized all the training really worked, the last thing I wanted to do was experience it again. This is where my understanding ends, because after that I was no longer excited for combat!

I love to hunt because it reconnects me with nature, I am a predator again. I think this is the really issue. I enjoy punching paper at long ranges as much as the next guy, and I think it is great practice, because if I can hit a 12 inch gong at 800, I can definitely hit it at 400; which if you are curious is my threshold when hunting. I am certain that in the right conditions I can kill game farther away, but I choose not to. It is the same reason I have never hunted with a guide, it is me versus the animal.

 

[StrutNut]

I understand what the author is saying and, well, would buy into it more if the author and those quoted had also participated in long range shooting at wild game and not just once, but often. It is opinion based on a legal method of hunting and although I dont do it myself, I certainly do not think I have the right to call what they are doing not hunting. One could use the same argument about shooting when hunting over a water hole in Africa, or heck even hunting goats out west over water. Are you really hunting them or shooting them when they come into water at which point distance now become irrelevant. Same could be said about hunting over bait, food plots and high fence hunting, game farm hunting for birds, heck, even hunting ducks on the last part of open water left. Is it really hunting or shooting? Or, maybe, can hunting possibly be both? Personally, as long as it is legal, have at it Hoss. It is hunting in my book.

 

[L. I. Yankee]

Im with you Fin...I take most pride in how close I get, not how far I shoot an animal.

Usually for me its 40 yds or less and wisper quiet....In my world here I rarely shoot over 150 yds with a rifle.....but thats me.....

 

[noharleyyet]

Buzz the nailer nailed it IMO. Luck is preparation and opportunity colliding. He has helped me with detailed shooting advice more than once.

 

[Straight Arrow]

In my experience those long distance shooters who have taken many elk, deer, and other game at distances over 400 yards will proudly tout their expertise and successes. However, they tend to repress and conveniently forget the ones that were missed or wounded and not recovered.

I hate a miss!

 

[Craig S.]

This whole thread is like trying to navigate through a room in the dark with a million mouse traps on the floor. No matter what you say or do, some one is bound to get offended. :W:

I am not a long range guru, but in our house we feel comfortable in shooting out to 600 yards. If we are prone and the conditions are right. If we had a wounded animal, we would dial up 800 yards without question.

I see the point in this discussion, because at some point it's not about hunting, it's about shooting. At some point, technology changes the game and has to be talked about, but again I think there is a lot more to the discussion than just pointing fingers at the long range crowd. The guys I know in this crowd are very skillful hunters.

Truthfully, I have seen way too many average hunters heading to Walmart to buy a box of cheap factory ammo the day before the opener. They really shouldn't be shooting over 50 yards, but they are trying to shoot off hand at 300 yards.

I learned a long time ago that hunting isn't about competing with other hunters, it's about competing with yourself. It's about getting your family and others involved in the great creation.

Questioning ethics is always a slippery slope. I am sure my ethics are different than everyone of yours and I am good with it.

 

[174in]

The bad thing is I see lots of guys here that cannot make clean shots with their tirty tirtys at 50yds.I have put down alot of deer around here that have been wounded from other hunters and it is usually the same ones that do it every year.