Interesting Wolf Related Group in Idaho

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
4,801
Location
Montana
Love your frequent chum you toss out. :) Tasty chum, if I may say! :)

Since I'm feeding on the chum and don't see a hook... I'll add my two cents.

I believe Montana should permit trapper NON Government Co-ops to exist for the purpose of compensating expenses, up to $1k. Heck, as a hobby related pseudo trapper that has little faith in a successful trap of a wolf, I would join simply to support the trappers compensation.

RMEF for one, for all. A great program. This does not take a single penny from taxes, license fees, etc... it is strictly a private run co-op supported and paid by it's members.
 

PrairieHunter

Active member
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
858
Location
Laramie, WY
Love your frequent chum you toss out. :) Tasty chum, if I may say! :)

Since I'm feeding on the chum and don't see a hook... I'll add my two cents.

I believe Montana should permit trapper NON Government Co-ops to exist for the purpose of compensating expenses, up to $1k. Heck, as a hobby related pseudo trapper that has little faith in a successful trap of a wolf, I would join simply to support the trappers compensation.

RMEF for one, for all. A great program. This does not take a single penny from taxes, license fees, etc... it is strictly a private run co-op supported and paid by it's members.
I just post stuff that I read and find interesting. $1,000 for a wolf and you keep the pelt sounds like a pretty good deal.

Appears some states are even looking at controlling coyotes with $.
 

Sytes

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
4,801
Location
Montana
Unfortunately, private co-op compensation for the expense a trapper incurred to trap a wolf constitutes a "bounty" in Montana. I disagree but it is what it is, for now.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2015
Messages
534
Location
Danbury, Wisconsin
Bounties have not place in the US. We've been there before and witnessed the consequences. Kill all the wolves within season, following the regs, etc. that you want but a bounty shouldn't be part of it. Disappointing to see RMEF part of this
 

wllm1313

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
2,379
Location
Aurora, CO
Bounties have not place in the US. We've been there before and witnessed the consequences. Kill all the wolves within season, following the regs, etc. that you want but a bounty shouldn't be part of it. Disappointing to see RMEF part of this
Were there states that had bounties but banned poison? I agree that any time you monetize wildlife you create huge problems, but at the same time im wondering if there actually is a historical comparison.

My gut is the last time we had bounties we had unrestricted take and unrestricted methods.
 

shoots-straight

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,789
Location
Bitterroot Valley
The fee isn't paid to anyone that kills a wolf. You first have to pay a fee and join the organization. You might just be paying someone else's costs. I'm not opposed to compensation in this manner, and know that trapping for wolf is very expensive. I haven't trapped the last two years because prices on bobcat dropped in half, and martin were unreliable. I trap for the recreation but it costs far more than hunting does. My travel in one day to check my wolf traps was over 200 miles on the truck, and then another 50 by sled. By law we have to check wolf traps every other day. So that's 15 times a month or 3000 miles by truck, and another 750 by sled.
 

JTHOMP

Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2017
Messages
282
Location
Louisiana
Bounties have not place in the US. We've been there before and witnessed the consequences. Kill all the wolves within season, following the regs, etc. that you want but a bounty shouldn't be part of it. Disappointing to see RMEF part of this
We have a bounty for nutria in the coastal zone of Louisiana that has been extremely successful. In terms of cost per benefit it has been one of if not the most beneficial coastal restoration projects. When trapping was good their numbers were kept at bay. Now the bounty seems to be the only long term solution for them for keeping their numbers and impact to the marsh manageable. At least in Louisiana. Look at Maryland and they were able to eradicate them without having a bounty.

It's not a wild west shoot out, but a regulated program. Many think "oh nutria that's $5 a tail" but between enrolling in the program, and having access to private property most are weeded out from the start. Not saying a bounty is whats needed for the wolf issue, and I personally have no dog in that fight. And yes the anti hunting groups will cry more about a wolf than marsh rats that are not native. But if other management options are exhausted, it still may been a good tool to increase the harvest if that is whats needed.
 

Ben Lamb

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
9,740
Location
Helena
The fee isn't paid to anyone that kills a wolf. You first have to pay a fee and join the organization. You might just be paying someone else's costs. I'm not opposed to compensation in this manner, and know that trapping for wolf is very expensive. I haven't trapped the last two years because prices on bobcat dropped in half, and martin were unreliable. I trap for the recreation but it costs far more than hunting does. My travel in one day to check my wolf traps was over 200 miles on the truck, and then another 50 by sled. By law we have to check wolf traps every other day. So that's 15 times a month or 3000 miles by truck, and another 750 by sled.
You are paid for the dead animal you bring in. That is a bounty. The bill in MT currently is about amending the code that allows for bounties.

It's a bounty.

This organization could change their methodology to be legal in MT pretty easily. They could simply provide grants up front to trappers with established track records in ethically trapping wolves; they could put on trapping courses to increase efficacy in trappers, they could give landowners with chronic issues a grant to hire trappers to come in and take wolves out, but this is about paying a bounty and calling it something else for PC purposes.

The North American Model prohibits the commerce in dead wildlife. Trapping still falls under that because it's not the killing of the animal that gets paid for, it's the fur, after you've harvested & worked the pelt. No different than selling taxidermized heads, sheds or Euro mounts.

This is a bounty program. Bounties are antithetical to the North American Model.
 

Ben Lamb

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
9,740
Location
Helena
We have a bounty for nutria in the coastal zone of Louisiana that has been extremely successful. In terms of cost per benefit it has been one of if not the most beneficial coastal restoration projects. When trapping was good their numbers were kept at bay. Now the bounty seems to be the only long term solution for them for keeping their numbers and impact to the marsh manageable. At least in Louisiana. Look at Maryland and they were able to eradicate them without having a bounty.

It's not a wild west shoot out, but a regulated program. Many think "oh nutria that's $5 a tail" but between enrolling in the program, and having access to private property most are weeded out from the start. Not saying a bounty is whats needed for the wolf issue, and I personally have no dog in that fight. And yes the anti hunting groups will cry more about a wolf than marsh rats that are not native. But if other management options are exhausted, it still may been a good tool to increase the harvest if that is whats needed.
Nutria are causing serious issues with coastal conservation, and they are non-native invasives. Totally different than wolves, which are native wildlife managed under title 87 for their conservation and protection.
 

shoots-straight

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,789
Location
Bitterroot Valley
You are paid for the dead animal you bring in. That is a bounty. The bill in MT currently is about amending the code that allows for bounties.

It's a bounty.

This organization could change their methodology to be legal in MT pretty easily. They could simply provide grants up front to trappers with established track records in ethically trapping wolves; they could put on trapping courses to increase efficacy in trappers, they could give landowners with chronic issues a grant to hire trappers to come in and take wolves out, but this is about paying a bounty and calling it something else for PC purposes.

The North American Model prohibits the commerce in dead wildlife. Trapping still falls under that because it's not the killing of the animal that gets paid for, it's the fur, after you've harvested & worked the pelt. No different than selling taxidermized heads, sheds or Euro mounts.

This is a bounty program. Bounties are antithetical to the North American Model.
Call it what you will, doesn't matter to me, or the group that's already doing it. It's a private bounty without any tax payers being involved. I think that stands alone in today's program rich environment. I still like the idea and the program.
 

Ben Lamb

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
9,740
Location
Helena
Call it what you will, doesn't matter to me, or the group that's already doing it. It's a private bounty without any tax payers being involved. I think that stands alone in today's program rich environment. I still like the idea and the program.
Ethics shouldn't change because of who is paying the freight. I'm all for these guys coming in and ponying up on the front end. Bounties are bad news for hunters & trappers in the long run, and they make us look like we don't care about wildlife.
 

neffa3

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
1,561
Location
Wenatchee
Nutria are causing serious issues with coastal conservation, and they are non-native invasives. Totally different than wolves, which are native wildlife managed under title 87 for their conservation and protection.
Com'on Ben, we all know they are Canadian Super Wolves here illegally without green cards. :D
 

shoots-straight

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
5,789
Location
Bitterroot Valley
Ethics shouldn't change because of who is paying the freight. I'm all for these guys coming in and ponying up on the front end. Bounties are bad news for hunters & trappers in the long run, and they make us look like we don't care about wildlife.
Ethics is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like Bear Baiting either. You feel it's unethical. I can make a great case why Bear Baiting is ethical and a better tactical way for taking bears. In my discussions with you over a fire one night, we agreed to disagree over whether trapping was ethical or not, and if it went against the North American Model. I submit that the North American Model isn't perfect and some species might be better served by straying from it a bit. We don't eat wolves, and therefore the North American model isn't being followed anyway. What one person considers a "ligament purpose" another person considers to be repulsive. #2 on the model suggests we have no markets for game animals. I believe that the wolf isn't classified a "Game Animal" yet. Even if he was, there 's a market for the pelts. Taking lions with Hounds is "Unethical" by many too, so lets not start with what's Ethical according to who, just yet.
 

Grundy53

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
81
Location
Lake Stevens, Wa
Ethics is in the eye of the beholder. You don't like Bear Baiting either. You feel it's unethical. I can make a great case why Bear Baiting is ethical and a better tactical way for taking bears. In my discussions with you over a fire one night, we agreed to disagree over whether trapping was ethical or not, and if it went against the North American Model. I submit that the North American Model isn't perfect and some species might be better served by straying from it a bit. We don't eat wolves, and therefore the North American model isn't being followed anyway. What one person considers a "ligament purpose" another person considers to be repulsive. #2 on the model suggests we have no markets for game animals. I believe that the wolf isn't classified a "Game Animal" yet. Even if he was, there 's a market for the pelts. Taking lions with Hounds is "Unethical" by many too, so lets not start with what's Ethical according to who, just yet.
Completely agree. Well said.
 

Ben Lamb

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
9,740
Location
Helena
Robert,

The bill specifies that it only applies to ethical trappers, so you should oppose it based on that alone, and your point above.
 
Top