If I were king of Colorado

bushman13

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Jun 11, 2018
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312
Elk

OTC with cap for every unit. First come, first serve. Resident and non resident pools.
Local sales open up 1 hour before online sales to benefit residents, maybe even restrict these sales to residents living within specific unit.
Antler restrictions across the boards. (QDM in the whitetail world, nothing new)
NO more arbitrary managing one unit for trophy and the next for opportunity. Manage for overall numbers and health instead.

I think the current OTC methodology will be eventually be looked at as archaic and barbaric. I say this because the bulls are basically kept at 2.5 years old with this model.

No more Preference Points and feeling like a puppet on a string. Mic drop
 

wllm1313

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Something to keep in mind is that the system did not occur in a vacuum, many of things were tried and the ultimately rejected over the last thirty years. Namely, all OTC... it originally was but people wanted a few quality units... all things considered Colorado has very few "trophy" units, point restrictions... this was actually a rule until recently with deer but actually had the opposite effect... basically all the older bucks were annihilated because your average meat hunter had to look for a big mature buck instead of poping a forky on day 1. OCT with caps would just result in a ton of units with lots of leftover tags and a bunch of units sold out day one.

I think the current OTC methodology will be eventually be looked at as archaic and barbaric. I say this because the bulls are basically kept at 2.5 years old with this model.
This is accurate, but I think overall people like it, you might find a 6x6 + in CO but you have a really good chance at a 5x5. I suggest you look at the regs and talk to folks on the forum from Oregon, Washington, and Utah, and contrast those with CO.

On the whole I think for balancing opportunity with herd health, Colorado's system is one, if not the best of any state.

If you really wanted to change the 2.5 age class problem, you would get rid of TABOR, allow CPAW to get funds from the general fund, inact a backpack and a car registration tax, and then drop the NR license quota to 15% and eliminating 30k tags a year. The net effect would likely be WY would take 4 years to draw as a NR, MT would be 2-3, Idaho would likely have to go to a point system and the rest of the states would feel the pinch as 30k tags is the total number of NR hunters in WY and MT combined.

Sounds crazy but you have to look at CO as part of the "western hunting system", you can't tinker with CO and not dramatically effect every other state, not when CO makes up 50% of the NR elk hunting in the United States.
 

HighDesertSage

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Western Colorado
I think Colorado does mule deer right. We do a good job balancing opportunity with trophy potential. I am curious to see how much the new season dates will impact this balance though.

I would love to see elk ran the same way. However I fear the almighty dollar will inhibit this from ever happening.

Wyoming does a great job with elk management As well in my opinion.
 

Cogreeny

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Sep 23, 2016
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Lyons, CO
Years back when there was a 3 point restriction on mule deer it benefited the deer herd greatly in my opinion and a lot more quality bucks I’d be in favor of it again
 

nick87

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Years back when there was a 3 point restriction on mule deer it benefited the deer herd greatly in my opinion and a lot more quality bucks I’d be in favor of it again
Point restrictions let a lot of older 3 point bucks walk and a lot of young 4 points or better with potential are killed. Imo
 

Cogreeny

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Point restrictions let a lot of older 3 point bucks walk and a lot of young 4 points or better with potential are killed. Imo
To each his own man just stated what I saw in many years here my dad and grandpas noticed it too. It was a 3 point or better restriction the older 3 points were legal
 

bushman13

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OCT with caps would just result in a ton of units with lots of leftover tags and a bunch of units sold out day one.

Only in the beginning. Once a more natural age class was developed statewide, you would not have a need to pile on a unit. Self cleansing.



Something to keep in mind is that the system did not occur in a vacuum, many of things were tried and the ultimately rejected over the last thirty years. Namely, all OTC... it originally was but people wanted a few quality units... all things considered Colorado has very few "trophy" units, point restrictions... this was actually a rule until recently with deer but actually had the opposite effect... basically all the older bucks were annihilated because your average meat hunter had to look for a big mature buck instead of poping a forky on day 1. OCT with caps would just result in a ton of units with lots of leftover tags and a bunch of units sold out day one.



This is accurate, but I think overall people like it, you might find a 6x6 + in CO but you have a really good chance at a 5x5. I suggest you look at the regs and talk to folks on the forum from Oregon, Washington, and Utah, and contrast those with CO.

On the whole I think for balancing opportunity with herd health, Colorado's system is one, if not the best of any state.

If you really wanted to change the 2.5 age class problem, you would get rid of TABOR, allow CPAW to get funds from the general fund, inact a backpack and a car registration tax, and then drop the NR license quota to 15% and eliminating 30k tags a year. The net effect would likely be WY would take 4 years to draw as a NR, MT would be 2-3, Idaho would likely have to go to a point system and the rest of the states would feel the pinch as 30k tags is the total number of NR hunters in WY and MT combined.

Sounds crazy but you have to look at CO as part of the "western hunting system", you can't tinker with CO and not dramatically effect every other state, not when CO makes up 50% of the NR elk hunting in the United States.
 

nick87

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To each his own man just stated what I saw in many years here my dad and grandpas noticed it too. It was a 3 point or better restriction the older 3 points were legal
My misunderstanding on what you meant by 3 point rule. I read over it to quickly I guess and presumed youw were talking about 4 point or better restriction which is common in other states.
 

Cogreeny

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Messages
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Lyons, CO
My misunderstanding on what you meant by 3 point rule. I read over it to quickly I guess and presumed youw were talking about 4 point or better restriction which is common in other states.
No biggie just throwing things out there seeing what other guys have noticed over the years.
 

wllm1313

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Aurora, CO
OCT with caps would just result in a ton of units with lots of leftover tags and a bunch of units sold out day one.

Only in the beginning. Once a more natural age class was developed statewide, you would not have a need to pile on a unit. Self cleansing.
I assume you would make tags OTC but unit specific correct? So everyone just couldn’t pile into unit 10, that unit would have a cap and then after say 300 tags were sold for 2nd season they would be gone.
The issue I was highlighting wasn’t the current disparity in quality, as you said that would level out. What I was trying to highlight is that some units are just easy to kill elk in, 10 is kinda flat plans with enough topography to for good glassing, unit 28 is a timber hell hole, that’s super steep. People are gonna want to hunt the easy spot. Part of the reason why CPAW picks the trophy units to be trophy units is because those areas had to be limited already so as to keep people from exterminating all the elk in those units.

The other issue with just a free for all OTC with caps would be the Black Friday effect on license vendors. Honestly I think it would piss people off and they would want to go to a lottery for units with a limited quota... and we’re are back where we started.
 

bushman13

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You would have to do OTC per unit unfortunately. I like the Black Friday effect, at least everyone has a shot. If there were an advantage to buying local it might bring back the mom n pop outdoor store.

I assume you would make tags OTC but unit specific correct? So everyone just couldn’t pile into unit 10, that unit would have a cap and then after say 300 tags were sold for 2nd season they would be gone.
The issue I was highlighting wasn’t the current disparity in quality, as you said that would level out. What I was trying to highlight is that some units are just easy to kill elk in, 10 is kinda flat plans with enough topography to for good glassing, unit 28 is a timber hell hole, that’s super steep. People are gonna want to hunt the easy spot. Part of the reason why CPAW picks the trophy units to be trophy units is because those areas had to be limited already so as to keep people from exterminating all the elk in those units.

The other issue with just a free for all OTC with caps would be the Black Friday effect on license vendors. Honestly I think it would piss people off and they would want to go to a lottery for units with a limited quota... and we’re are back where we started.
 

wllm1313

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Aurora, CO
I'd just copy Wyomings plan and call it good.
This is a quick overview of what that would look like.
Assuming you reduced the total number of tags given out in CO to the same proportion of Tags/Elk that Wyoming gives out (this allows archery + rifle season for tag)
and then assuming you reduce the NR tags from the current 35% of limited and 41% of OTC to a fixed 18.3% (18.3% is the total Wyoming NR ratio which includes the fixed total + all other types of tags that NR can obtain). I didn't deal with the 17,000 youth license that CO gives out and I'm not sure if these numbers are apples to apples, wyoming has other regs like the wilderness rule that might play into account on the success rations and those rules might influence whether co could actually do a 6+ week hunting season.

Net being that CO residents would actually get back 5254 license, meaning it would be easier to draw limited license + we would get a much longer season, the down side is a 20 million dollar revenue loss and you would wipe out 25% of all non-resident hunting opportunity in the country. This would mean a lot of NR point creep in every state. You would have to eliminate OTC NR hunting and make all NR license draw, like MT and WY.

I'm not saying your idea is a bad one... parts of it I like, I'm just trying to give some color to what that would look like.

1570723731685.png
 

thusby

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At this point I would be cool if they converted all my preference points to bonus points.
 

elkduds

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CO Springs.
Tariffs! Add a tariff to CO NR tag prices. Sliding scale tariffs would be based on each state's legislative commitment to protecting and accessing federal public lands. UT, line up behind TX.

State law enforcement policy shall be to harass NR drivers equal to that state's policy of profiling CO drivers. UT, there you go again.

Expensive annual visas required for NRs who own homes here. Discounted visa if owned property is time share or interval ownership.

Definitely a border wall on the western state line. With a moat.

Dollar a gallon origination/storage/transportation fee on any water that flows out of CO.

Require annual recreation sticker for every outdoor toy that crosses into the state, keep that affordable @ $10 for every thousand $ of that item's retail price new, with a multiplier x1 for every wheel on the toy, including trailers and bogey wheels on snow machine tracks.

Show up w a snowboard, proof of personal liability insurance required for that. Skis are exempted.

Mandatory buyback of marijuana from those leaving the state. Cost of administering this regulation to be paid by states bordering CO.

All out-of-state vehicles must, upon entering CO; replace all fuel and air in tires. spare included, with altitude-compensated fuel and tire-inflation gases.

Cultural sensitivity fee for mandatory removal of any adhesive or fabric endorsements for any NFL team not based in CO. Multipliers: 3x for each instance the represented team obstructed any CO based team from advancing in an AFL/AFC playoff competition. 7x multiplier for same obstruction in any NFL championship.



If I failed to offend any state or individual, please take a # and stand by. We are experiencing an unusually high volume of seriousness. Google "satire" while you wait.
 
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