I’m not gonna touch this one. This thread will go right off the rails if we go there.
Just suffice it to say that a more aggressive approach with an effective reduction in numbers could help the moose population.
ID Wolf Management Plan 2023 - 2028
- Thread starter BackofBeyond
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Just suffice it to say that a more aggressive approach with an effective reduction in numbers could help the moose population.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
If baby stepping has been working why play into their hands by doing something drastic?
Sorry dude these are public opinions you are stating. I'm also a member of the public I hunt wolves and I feel an objective of 500 is too low and unnecessary puts wolves and wolf hunting at risk. That's my opinion.
You wouldn’t “feel” that way if you looked at the data. What is leading you to think 500 is too low? No one is suggesting getting the numbers down to unsustainable numbers. Not even close. Ever since wolves were reintroduced the state has played by the rules and been the role model for other states on how to navigate this mess and maintain the ability to manage them without interference while staying within the guidelines.
Until the state is shown to fall short of the objective requirements they should be left alone to manage how they see fit. IDFG isn’t solely a wolf management agency and is trying to better balance the numbers of wolves. Pretty cut and dried in my “opinion “.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
What data? Do you have data that shows a 60% reduction of population wouldn't put our hunt at risk due to litigation.
Alrighty then.
Hey you have a great day.
flatcoat
Well-known member
East side has zones that are 25% over elk objectives this year. The state is issuing huge numbers of depredation tags and wish they had some more more wooves spread out here to kill some elk so they don’t have to.
The anti - ESA woof international litigation funding has not let up since the Simpson Tester rider...
Mountain Mule
Well-known member
In a recent project over 120 female moose were collared in north and south Idaho. Of those moose, only 1 or 2 were killed by wolves. Poor winter condition, ticks, and brain worms have led to many more moose dying in Idaho. Not to mention of those moose, they had several calves and 1 collard adult poached.
bwanakubwa
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You can't make the anti wolf hunt advocates happy. If the legal harvest was 1 old gummer wolf the state would have a court case on its hands. The recovery objective is what it is, why should the state aim for anything else?
bwanakubwa
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So what has changed in the last 30 years?
Ticks have ebbed and flowed. The unit I live in nearly lost all its moose in the 80’s due to them, then it rebounded and was an awesome moose unit in the late 90’s and early 2000’s. It’s dropping fast again and it’s rare to see one in the winter or early spring that doesn’t look terrible. I’d also estimate that roadkill in the unit exceeds harvest. There is little to no wolf presence in the unit
FI460
Well-known member
You'll never make the antis happy, but 500 makes a lot of folks in the middle uncomfortable. Especially when we're saying 500 out of a current 1500.
Looks like the expanded seasons are working. May be able keep running this way for a few years and get the population down around 800 without causing too much stink.
44hunter45
Well-known member
Apart from people who shoot two moose and tag one?
Amen--
Idahoans are extremely good at bitching about wolves, not so much killing them.
I'm curious what comes next in the "incrementally more aggressive" plan? Year round seasons and liberal bag limits? We're doing that. If that doesn't work, we'll hire professional wolf killers from Wildlife Services. Oh wait, we are already doing that. There is already an entire Boise High School (Timberline) in revolt because Wildlife Services killed wolf pups in "their" adopted pack. I'm not really sure what more it is that wolf haters want.
The most vocal wolf haters in Idaho have no more time invested in wolf hunting than it took to put the "Smoke a Pack a Day" sticker on their BTLD. That's probably a good thing.
I don't actively chase wolves, but I'm not hugging them either. I've chased them enough to know you aren't going to earn a wolf rug by driving around on the roads tossing beer cans in the back of your truck. Is that, I wonder, why so many Idaho hunters think that the wolves ate all the elk, because they never get out of their truck?
I do not deny that wolves kill livestock, but I think an awful lot of wolf livestock predation stories are hearsay and BS. There is a process for wolf kills to be confirmed by USDA and compensated to ranchers by the state. You can bet the Farm Bureau has a "how to apply for depredation payments" page on their website.
If you google "Wolves in Idaho" you are going to see that the wolf huggers have a lot better SEO than the other 90% of the people on this planet. You will get hits about "Idaho's war on Wolves" and the like. If you read those stories, you will see that almost every one of them cites the social media of some illiterate bubba with a three can a day habit.
Well played Idaho, my home. IDFG isn't the problem, we are
BuzzH
Well-known member
Better question is what hasn't?
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Imagine the revenue this proposal can make for the cereal litigators without actually reducing wolf numbers.
The have to be excited about this one!
Mustangs Rule
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Several long term research studies have been done by Fish and Game Dept in Colorado
They live trapped Mt. lions, put radio tracking collars on them, then investigate kill sites. Then extracted lymph nodes from deer and checked for CWD. The lions are definitely favoring deer with CWD,
That research study plus others that dispel the ideas that predators actually spread CWD are a big part for wolf reintroduction there.
A major western vet school is beginning long term studies on wolves selecting elk with CWD.
They live trapped Mt. lions, put radio tracking collars on them, then investigate kill sites. Then extracted lymph nodes from deer and checked for CWD. The lions are definitely favoring deer with CWD,
That research study plus others that dispel the ideas that predators actually spread CWD are a big part for wolf reintroduction there.
A major western vet school is beginning long term studies on wolves selecting elk with CWD.
The Law Offices of Tony the Tiger, Captain Crunch, Toucan Sam, and the Trix Rabbit, LLP?
Sorry, had to.
44hunter45
Well-known member
I'm not sure why this is in a thread which should be titled, " There are too many GD wolves in Idaho..." The thread is about the political ramifications of Idaho reducing wolf populations below 500.
Your post does prove the point that whenever there is a thread about predators, the usual suspects will post their usual convictions, myself included. More evidence that not one real problem has ever been solved on social media.
If you are going to wave the "studies" flag, please be a sport and actually cite the studies. Otherwise you are making gratuitous assertions.
I assume you mean this study comparing infection rates of lion killed deer to infection rates in human killed deer (including road killed). The authors make no claims regarding the effects, good or bad, on CWD transmission. They begin with the hypothesis that predators select for easier kills, collect data and make observations.
Mountain lions prey selectively on prion-infected mule deer
The possibility that predators choose prey selectively based on age or condition has been suggested but rarely tested. We examined whether mountain lions (Puma concolor) selectively prey upon mule deer (Odocoileus hemionus) infected with chronic wasting ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
It seems (to me) you are projecting conclusions which the authors are careful NOT to make.
The paper's concluding paragraph notes: (emphasis added)
"We observed that mountain lions typically consumed greater than 85 percent of a deer carcass, often including brain tissue, and this may be beneficial in decreasing prion contamination at kill sites. However, the extent to which selective predation by mountain lions alters the dynamics of prion disease epidemics in natural mule deer populations remains unclear (Miller et al. 2008)."
Although the logistics would seem impossible, I would be interested in a follow-on study of prion prevalence in lion scat within x km radius of kill sites.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
If you don't think Tony has a good legal team f around and find out!
44hunter45
Well-known member
They're GREAT!
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