I should apologize to Randy for this

[VikingsGuy]

There is currently several shooters in jail that could be made example of. The kid here in MI who parents also got convicted.

A merciless incentive of slowly dying where you wish you were dead is incentive to not take the risk of being caught alive.

Make it as clear as possible we are going to enter, we are going to do everything in our power to make you suffer, there will be no quick suicide by cop for you.

Won’t fix some but will make others think twice when they see just how bad it got for jimmy.

So, just keep shooting hostages until the cops have no choice - good strategy to reduce death tolls. This is why "tough guy" solutions never work. They sound appealing on the bar stool, but don't at all map onto reality.

 

[Handlebar]

I already said, "if religion keeps you on the straight and narrow, great, go for it". Just don't tell me its the cure all or will solve the problem of gun violence. It never has, and never will.

No different than if someone rolls chicken bones twice a day to keep themselves in line...don't care, keep rolling.

I just find it absolutely stunning that someone believes putting scripture on a county building or forcing school prayer will solve mass murder.

If that's the best we can do, its my contention we're hosed...and like I said, just keep building casket

I think humans have trouble caring beyond their immediate tribe. And a million years of evolution shaped a mind that can't pivot in 150 yrs to a broader sense of community. Look at the countries with high scores for unity, health, well-being, etc. They are all small countries with one language, one skin color, one history, a gene pool that damn near makes them cousins. It is easier for those 5 or 6 million to care for their whole nation because it looks/feels like an immediate tribe. That in you helping someone else you can rely on them following shared rules and you can expect reciprocity.

But when you have 350 million speaking a hundred languages, exhibiting 1024 bit color palette, countless religions, and countless very different life experiences, it is hard to get the individual to pitch in as there is no sense of helping yourself, your immediate family/neighbor, and little by way of common rules/expectations. So, many many Americans just hunker down, clutch their pursestrings, and chalk the whole thing up to unavoidable evil shoved upon them by scapegoat X.

I am not optimistic that the human mind can evolve fast enough to change our direction. A common existential threat is really the only proven tool, but we lost that when the Berlin wall came down. So in a vacuum we turned against one another. Will China emerge as a "unifier" or have we already disintegrated too far to rally? Time will tell - but that type of unity doesn't really create broader solutions, just glosses over them.

VG, I agree with you, however if someone said that and also said something about God. Well my guess is that they would be derided for white supremacy

 

[Handlebar]

Right...there's more people in prison in the U.S. than China, Iran, and Russia. We don't punish offenders, but we're clearly punishing somebody.

Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison​

1. United States — 2,068,800
2. China — 1,690,000
3. Brazil — 811,707
4. India — 478,600
5. Russia — 471,490
6. Thailand — 309,282
7. Turkey — 291,198
8. Indonesia — 266,259
9. Mexico — 220,866
10. Iran — 189,000

We put a lot of people in jail for non violent drug offences. When I say punish I mean some gang banger or trailer park trash shoots a place up trying to kill one person and ends up killing others I want them executed.

 

[BuzzH]

It's difficult to reply to you when you keep editing your posts. As for banning books, there's also a lot more "new" books in schools that might make you blush. Interesting times we live in

How many kids were killed with books lately? Or perhaps from seeing someone dressed in drag?

Yet, we spend more time, effort, and money...and voting for people, who devote their time pretty evenly between banning books and drag shows, than caring about gun violence.

I have no idea why we can't solve gun violence and mass shootings, total mystery.

 

[BuzzH]

We put a lot of people in jail for non violent drug offences. When I say punish I mean some gang banger or trailer park trash shoots a place up trying to kill one person and ends up killing others I want them executed.

What element are people who are in prison for non violent drug offenses around? Do you think prison reforms these people, helps with their drug addictions, and makes it easier or harder for them once they get out of prison to become a valuable member of society?

 

[VikingsGuy]

VG, I agree with you, however if someone said that and also said something about God. Well my guess is that they would be derided for white supremacy

I think the difference is I did not say a monochrome pallet is better, or preferable, or I miss the good old days. Or if I had waxed on about those "urban folks" and how they can burn their trash cities to the ground. If I had your remark would be fitting. There is a big difference between understanding human shortcomings that face all and laying them at the feet of non-whites.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How many kids were killed with books lately? Or perhaps from seeing someone dressed in drag?

Yet, we spend more time, effort, and money...and voting for people, who devote their time pretty evenly between banning books and drag shows, than caring about gun violence.

I have no idea why we can't solve gun violence and mass shootings, total mystery.

don't forget Dr. Suess

 

[elkduds]

How many kids were killed with books lately? Or perhaps from seeing someone dressed in drag?

Yet, we spend more time, effort, and money...and voting for people, who devote their time pretty evenly between banning books and drag shows, than caring about gun violence.

I have no idea why we can't solve gun violence and mass shootings, total mystery.

Compare the urgency of Congress' response to bank failures to their response to mass shootings, including those of children. Then you know who runs this country.

 

[BuzzH]

don't forget Dr. Suess

...and Disneyland.

 

[Handlebar]

What element are people who are in prison for non violent drug offenses around? Do you think prison reforms these people, helps with their drug addictions, and makes it easier or harder for them once they get out of prison tp become a valuable member of society?

I would argue that we are took quick to place non violent drug offenders in jail to begin with.

 

[Addicting]

So, just keep shooting hostages until the cops have no choice - good strategy to reduce death tolls. This is why "tough guy" solutions never work. They sound appealing on the bar stool, but don't at all map onto reality.

Didn’t say that. Tell me why the shooters who we catch alive shouldn’t be made examples of?

Pretty sure this would run afoul of the U.S. Constitution. One of those pesky Bill of Rights issues.

Absolutely not a realistic solution.

Hence my post about a Gov that won’t allow what we need. If these crimes were dealt with as my previous post eluded to, these shooters would not be protected from your reference.

You can loose rights by committing crimes, IMO these cases the shooter should loose all rights. It is a solution, one you may not agree with but a solution none the less.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

don't forget Dr. Suess

The Lorax is a green decoy

 

[BuzzH]

I would argue that we are took quick to place non violent drug offenders in jail to begin with.

For profit prisons and those lobbying your elected officials for three strike laws, minimum imprisonment, and other "tough on crime" legislation would disagree.

You don't make money with empty cells.

 

[Handlebar]

I think the difference is I did not say a monochrome pallet is better, or preferable, or I miss the good old days. Or if I had waxed on about those "urban folks" and how they can burn their trash cities to the ground. If I had your remark would be fitting. There is a big difference between understanding human shortcomings that face all and laying them at the feet of non-whites.

As I said I agree with you...

 

[Addicting]

Right...there's more people in prison in the U.S. than China, Iran, and Russia. We don't punish offenders, but we're clearly punishing somebody.

Top 10 Countries with the most people in prison​

1. United States — 2,068,800
2. China — 1,690,000
3. Brazil — 811,707
4. India — 478,600
5. Russia — 471,490
6. Thailand — 309,282
7. Turkey — 291,198
8. Indonesia — 266,259
9. Mexico — 220,866
10. Iran — 189,000

I would bet with this data is quite a few of those places the violent perpetrators are not alive to go to jail. Or for those stealing they loose fingers and hands instead of jail time.

 

[BuzzH]

I would bet with this data is quite a few of those places the violent perpetrators are not alive to go to jail. Or for those stealing they loose fingers and hands instead of jail time.

Most people that commit mass shooting/murder here aren't in jail either...they're dead.

IIRC, the percentage is in the neighborhood of 80% are either killed by LEO or kill themselves. By all means, kill the other 20% but it will mean nothing.

Sort of in line like grizzlies having more fear of humans if you hunt and kill individual bears. Yeah, you taught that dead bear you just shot a lesson, but I don't think you're changing the behavior of the bear in the next drainage over.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Didn’t say that. Tell me why the shooters who we catch alive shouldn’t be made examples of?

I'd give them a high-quality jury trial within 60 days. One very rigorous round of appeals within the next 9 months and then to the table/chamber within the year. I would do it as retribution and recidivism prevention. I would have no illusion it would stop the next kid killer.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The Lorax is a green decoy

My favorite Suess character!

 

[Addicting]

Most people that commit mass shooting/murder here aren't in jail either...they're dead.

It would be interesting to see data on that. I bet you’re wrong depending on the definitions.

 

[VikingsGuy]

For profit prisons . . .

You don't make money with empty cells.

I agree with the rest of the post, but I think this angle is way overplayed for political purposes and has little real-world truth behind it.