Hunting elk in the rut

[UtahMountainMan]

Hey guys - I lurk this site often but have rarely if ever posted. I wanted to get on here to ask for a little advice on elk calling as well as share my elk hunting story from 2 seasons ago in hopes I can finally get over my experience and maybe help someone else who may be going through the same thing.

In 2012, I applied in New Mexico for a really good quality archery elk tag that I had about 7% odds of drawing. It as my first time really applying out of state and I told my wife when I applied that hopefully within 5 years I draw a tag. I could NOT believe it when I get the email saying I had successfully drawn! I had never had a premium tag in my hand and I was ecstatic!!! This would be my first time hunting a big bull during the rut with my bow. I have killed a few spikes and cows with my bow in Utah but never had a big bull tag.

BigFin was actually nice enough to get on the phone with me for 30 minutes and share a ton of helpful advice on the area.

For the next 4 months I trained, lifted, ran 2 half marathons, shot probably 1k to 2k arrows, studied elk scoring online, read every book I could get my hands on regarding elk hunting in the rut, etc. Every night when I went to bed I saw elk antlers lol.

I put in the time, preparation, etc. I made the 12 hour drive down for a scouting trip in late july and got some great bulls on film. I sent private messages to every guy I could find online who had drawn this tag in the past.

I put in my homework and prep time. I was not cocky, but I knew deep down that I had probably LITERALLY spend more time training physically and studying maps and google earth than anyone of the other guys who had the tag.

I would be joined on my hunt by my best friend growing up who drove in from Texas. He was also in very good physical shape but had NEVER hunted before. He was there to help film my hunt and enjoy the experience with me.

Long story short, or at least shorter lol, we hunted our GUTS out for 7 full days and I could not believe it but when I was driving home after the hunt my truck bed did not contain a large set of antlers and the 3 giant coolers I brought were empty. I was, in a word, heart broken. I had pictured the hunt all summer, and this was not how I visualized it ending. Even now, about once or twice a month, I comment to my wife "I still cannot believe I did not tag a bull on my NM hunt". She laughs at me and says I am obsessed. I agree with her that I am obsessed and let out a sigh.

I have replayed the hunt, the stalks, everything, thousands of times in my head. Over and over and over.

Guess who just drew the EXACT SAME TAG AGAIN THIS YEAR? Me. Thats right. I am almost too scared to go hunt again in fear that I fail again. I am extremely competitive and I hate losing. Dont get me wrong, the hunt 2 years ago was a TON of fun. We chased bulls, told stories from 15 years ago, and experienced new and beautiful country. From an experience and learning standpoint, my 2012 hunt was a resounding success. But the unpunched tag is still in my wallet.

So now I am trying to analyze what I can do differently. Half the reason I am posting this is to kind of get the disappointment off my shoulders so I can move on positively and focused. The other half is I would love feedback and advice from those who have more experience hunting elk in the rut than I.

Let me describe an example of an experience that we had while hunting. This same experienced happened literally 5 or 6 times.

We find ourselves far from the road in wonderful elk country. There is elk sign everywhere and we know there are very few, if any, hunters within several canyons of us. We let out a weak bugle and a bull answers from maybe half a mile away. We would then go silent for the most part and attempt to quickly make our way towards the bugle checking the wind often. If the bull keeps bugling we wouldnt call back. Sometimes we would let out a cow call or a bugle if the elk went quiet to see where he was.

Guys I was within 150 yards of a bugling bull probably 10 times over the 7 days. It was an amazing experience. Usually, we would get setup 100 to 200 yards away from the bull and we would cow call to try to get him to come in. Several times we could even see the bull, sometimes he would be with cows other times not. Often when we cow called this is what would happen:

1 - the bull would come closer, bugling, get within 70 or 80 yards and not come any closer
2 - the bull would keep screaming but slowly take his cows out of the area
3 - the bull would bugle every little while but he and his cows wouldnt move from where they were at

So I am trying to figure out what we could have improved on. This hunt takes place from Sep 11 - 18. It is a rut hunt but obviously the last half of the hunt the elk are rutting more than the first half. Finding elk was NOT our difficulty last time. It was getting them to come to us.

I am thinking this time around I am going to try harder to get to them. One mistake that I think we made last time was that when myself and buddy would cow call we were close together. I think that this time around I will keep my caller 50 to 100 yards behind me and I will try to quietly stalk in towards the bull even as he is coming. That way hopefully he will still be thinking the cow(s) are further away and I can ambush him before he knows where we should be.

I am also wondering if i should bugle more. I had a few guys tell me that using a challenge bugle when you are in close will bring some bulls in. We focused on cow calls but man we had a heck of a time ever getting a bull to come in close. They would respond, move towards us, and hang up well outside of bow range.

I did run into a guy down there who had harvested a bull. He said his tactic was to locate the bull and then go completely quiet, stalk in to as close as he could get, within 20 or 30 yards if possible depending on the cover, and then gently cow call hoping to convince the cows with the bull that their circle of safety was a little bigger than what it was and that they may feed over towards him more. We never tried to get within 50 yards of the bull. We would generally locate the bull using a bugle or hear the bull bugle without us instigating him, move towards him, get within a couple hundred yards, and then get set up and switch to cow calling. Again, my caller was next to me as opposed to further back, that is one major thing I am going to switch up.

Anyway, I apologize about the long post. Just wanted to share my experience and hopefully get some insight or food for thought from you guys on little things I should have done differently. I still cant believe how close I was to so many bulls so many times and never let an arrow fly. I am committed to maximizing my chances of getting a different result this September. Any comments, feedback, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks fellas

"You sure you know how to skin grizz,
pilgrim?"

 

[Ben Long]

I'm no expert, but I think the No. 1 rule of elk hunting is there is no substitute for putting in your time. Tactics are important, but you got to log your hours. Sooner or later, the opportunity will come and all the pieces will click into place. Sounds like you're doing things right. Just keep doing them! Also watch the wind.
Even when you've got a hot tag and the rut is on, elk hunting is hard. Especially with archery gear. No disgrace in an empty pickup, IMO.

 

[WHOCARES]

Agree with Ben Long about needing to put the time in. You can have a lot of close situations without getting the shot. With two people having the caller 40 or 50 yards back can be a great tactic. One I don't get to use because I hunt solo. So I use other tactics depending on the situation. In some situations I may call and then rush forward 50 or maybe 100 yards. All depends. I like to try to sort of sense the mood of the bulls (or guess!) and then act accordingly. It's all fun and the challenge is the thing. Can't wait for late August. I have the good fortune of being retired and hunting the whole month and get in on changing moods of the elk. Anyway, putting the time in will give you the experiences to draw on and think about. Most times the elk wins!!

 

[Big Fin]

Very hard to call a bull into you from as far as you describe, at least if he has even one cow with him. Just no reason for him to respond. He may come and look or smell, but odds are he knew something wasn't right.

I agree with the guy you say you ran into Get as close as you possibly can. With big groups of cows, that might not be as close as you would like. But, with big groups of cows, you will have more than one bull around and the competition among the bulls will do some of the work for you.

Learn from last time and get more proactive. If you bump a bull or two, in that unit, you are going to have more chances.

Also, try to find where bulls want to go or where their daily patterns take them, and get in front of that spot. A lot easier to get a bull to go where he is already headed than to try call him back to where he just came from.

Elk are noisy. Don't pussy foot too much when try to cover ground on them. An elk makes a lot of noise when he is moving out; rocks rolling, limbs breaking, etc. They do not talk when they are on the move, so that is one noise that will send him away, fast.

Good luck.

 

[MtnWest]

Congrats on drawing the same tag again, that right there puts you in a great position.

I can't add much to what the other fellas said as it's all good stuff. Many times a bull gets hung up at that 80yd buffer zone regardless of calls but a twig snap, raking, etc will be too much to resist. Especially if you can have a partner behind you because they will stop as soon as they think they should see where that sound came from. If you don't, do like WHOCARES does and call and move forward a little and off to the side. I've done that a few times myself. Always fun to watch a bull walk by on a trail looking for where you just came from.

No calling and stalking in range is fun too. Good luck and post up a recap with pics.

 

[Gerald Martin]

My rule of thumb is that I get one shot opportunity for every 12 hunting days. I'm hunting public land OTC units and I may not be the best elk hunter but that's kind of been my experience. I would echo what the others have said about getting in close.
I know from talking with Dan Evans that he rarely calls in the bulls he kills. His main tactic is locating a herd or the bull he wants and stalking in quiet.

 

[ida homer]

Take this with a grain a salt, as I've never killed an elk with a bow.

Hunting the rut 99% of the time is not like what you read about in elk magazines. Every article makes it sound so easy. You hear a bugle, you move within a couple hundred yards. You cow call, he bugles once, you cut off his bugle then the herd bull comes charging across on open hillside the 300 yards into your setup mad as hell and slobbering. Then you shoot the bull at 20 yards broadside. Don't get discouraged, because this scenario doesn't happen near as often as you read about. At least to me.

We will hunt the 15-22nd, which I would consider prime rut and will never have a bull come CHARGING into our setup. We will hear countless bugles a day from 10 different bulls, and it's still a PITA to get them in tight. I think that that perfect scenario happens maybe once during the entire month of September. If you put in the time, one evening or morning the mountain will just light up with non stop bugling and more aggressive bulls. The rest of the month, the bulls will still bugle because of the testosterone and time of the year tells them too, but they are focused on getting their cows and laying low, to maintain their harem.

I'll answer your questions with the little bit I've learned the last 2 years.

1. Bulls aren't stupid, and even if they are the biggest bull on the mountain, fights stress them and take a lot out of them at a time where they are not focused on eating or their calorie intake. I think energy is reserved for breeding as much as possible. You really have to get in his comfort zone to get him to finish. We were within 50 yards of a decent bull and 5 cows last year. We tried every trick we knew of and he just would not come in. We were in pretty thick timber, so we tried to stalk in but we ended up bumping them out. For some bulls that comfort zone might be 20 or 30 yards. Bulls bugle that entire month, and no bull wants to be fighting every day. They'd rather be breeding. Sometimes you gotta show him something like a decoy, raking a tree or something more aggressive. Have your buddy sit back and call 50-100 yards behind you, it's CRUCIAL. That can be the difference maker, because we have had countless bulls hang up at that distance.

2. Similar to number 1, if he has a harem of cows in heat that he is content with, he has no reason to fight, unless you are dangerously close to stealing his girls. Regardless if it's Sept 20th or not.

3. Bulls will rarely leave their cows unattended to go fight. That's a lose lose situation for them. They lose the fight, they lose their cows. They win the fight, they expended a ton of energy and stress.This type of bull is just not that fired up and so the ball is in your court, and even if you do everything right this type of bull might just eventually grab his cows and head out even if you get in his comfort zone.

You might be able to call a rogue raghorn in on a string with some simple cow calls, but it's much tougher with the kind of bull you want to hang your tag on. All in all, I think you need to be more aggressive maybe or just get in tighter before you use a challenge bugle, then finish them with a cow decoy. Just something to think about. If you follow Corey Jacobsen and the Elk 101 guys, they seem to have a ton of success being more aggressive than the average guy.

I am far far from an expert archery/rut elk hunter. But I have learned a lot in the last 2 seasons. We are lucky enough to live in elk country so we spend about 10 days hunting each September in OTC units.

 

[Khunter]

You identified your number one issue when stating you never got within 50 yards among so many encounters. 150 yards is really a long ways from a bull. In that sort of bull county and the number of bugling bulls you will encounter. Harder to diagnose is if you really were within 150 yards. If you saw these bull then you probably were but all too often i think I am getting that close based on bugle or other sounds and the truth turns out that I was a lot further than it seemed and my easing up too soon is what killed the opportunity. Push into them very close. Sure you will bust some of them out. So what!? As you noted you will have a ton of opportunities with a tag like that.

I always say if I have not made a bull 'bark'. (In alarm and run away) i have not been pushing hard enough.

The advice about having your friend set up behind you is great. You are not there to see bulls together at 150 yds. You are there to kill one. Most useless helper on a hunt is a guy who simply "has" to see all the action and bulls. Standard game plan should be the nonhunter staying back during the final stalk. The bulls I have called in for others that shot them, I did not see the shot.

One of better days hunting the Gila with a friend, we had 6 bulls in bow range (40 yds or less) over 7 hours. Missed one, killed one and missed another and passed on two among two guys each with a tag and trading off as the guy hanging back for each set up.

Other option that can work great is to sit water. Brush blind can work fine. Personally have a HARD time sitting water when bulls are vocal. Too fun getting after them. Probably not smart if punching a tag is top priority.

One last thought based off what Ben said about putting in time. Don't be the average guy that goes back to camp or truck midday. Elk are active during the day. Many opportunities to get on them midday. Stay out there, nap where you last heard them and wait for those midday bugles that will come and are unheard by guys frying potatoes back at camp talking about how the elk 'just shut off and bedded at 9:30".

 

[HighDesertSage]

This ^. Last year on an elk hunt outside of Alamagordo we got up two hours before sun up and started hiking. At about 10:30 in the morning, we were exhausted, but instead of heading back to camp, we stayed out in the woods and caught some zzz's. About 11 AM somebody turned on an elk faucet....never got within bow range of a bull, but they were certainly active.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Check this link out. I am also a novice elk hunter trying to kill with my bow, and I learned a ton from this DVD.

http://www.elk101.com/store/elk101-com-university-of-elk-hunting-dvd

In my relatively uninformed opinion, I feel like you have to have 3-4 different approaches to gettting that bull in. Have plans for how to cow call in, challenge bugle, decoy setups, treestand/blind ambushes, or just going in stealth. The more plays you have in your book, the more likely you are to find the trick that will get you in close.

Last year was my 4th elk tag and we were hunting at the begining of the bugle, and I felt likel I was starting to figure out how the pieces go together, unfortunately I only had a cow tag and every elk I got in range was a bull. I would seriously reccomend having a Montana decoy cow elk strapped to your pack, sometimes that is what tips it over the edge.

 

[Phaseolus]

"I did run into a guy down there who had harvested a bull. He said his tactic was to locate the bull and then go completely quiet, stalk in to as close as he could get, within 20 or 30 yards".

Very good advice, especially if the bulls are a little call shy.

 

[Khunter]

This ^. Last year on an elk hunt outside of Alamagordo we got up two hours before sun up and started hiking. At about 10:30 in the morning, we were exhausted, but instead of heading back to camp, we stayed out in the woods and caught some zzz's. About 11 AM somebody turned on an elk faucet....never got within bow range of a bull, but they were certainly active.

exactly.

 

[jryoung]

A lot of great advice here.

The last bull I shot was a midday bull. We were sitting on a hillside overlooking a small valley for a couple of hours. We were watching, resting our feet, and checking the insides of our eyelids. Around 1pm a bull got up to check/yell at his cows and he was within 500 yards. He bedded back down pretty quick, but it was too late and he gave himself away.

A hot meal, cold beer and camp cot is nice midday, but you won't catch those lunchtime bugles.

 

[HSi-ESi]

I've never understood the 'let's go back to camp' logic. Maybe because my camps aren't all that comfortable.

Lots of great advice here to the OP. Don't be afraid to mix it up over a long hunt. If one tactic isn't working, then try another.

 

[UtahMountainMan]

Wow guys, great advice! I love it. Im not a guy that likes to head back to camp midday. My hunting time is precious, if I want to just go camping and kick back and relax then I can do that during the summer.

You know whats actually funny that I kind of forgot about until I shared this story. I got in my area 3 days early to scout. The first night I was there, before my tag was valid, I heard a bull bugling right at dark fairly close to me. I ran up the mountain and got pretty close to him. I was bugling at him and he at me. He was a very small 5 point bull. I have it on film, he came into about 50 yards, bugled at me, and I was hiding behind a fallen tree and I bugled back at him. This went on for like 5 minutes. He finally circled downwind and got within 20 yards of me looking for me lol.

That was the closest I got the whole trip and it was before my tag was even good. I had nothing to lose and I was extremely aggressive, ran right into his area and bugled aggressively. Once my hunt started I think I relied too much on waiting for the bulls to come in and not trying to get in to close to get busted and drive them off. My plan was to cow call them in, and my caller was either too close to me and/or we were both too far from the talking bulls.

This time around, I think I my overall plan is to get WAY more aggressive to stalking in and seeing if I can get a shot without trying to get them to come to me. That seems to be a better plan. Also, I found 2 years ago that when they WERE coming in they were usually bugling quite a bit so it was fairly obvious if I was dealing with a bull who was moving in or a bull that was staying put.

Thanks for all the knowledge and feedback shared.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

That was the closest I got the whole trip and it was before my tag was even good. I had nothing to lose and I was extremely aggressive, ran right into his area and bugled aggressively.

I'd say you had nothing to gain by educating him before the hunt. Even if it's not a bull you'd shoot I don't think it's worth it to play cat and mouse before the hunt. Save it for when it counts. That's my 2¢ anyways.

There's been a lot of great advice in this thread. None of it will work every time but be aggressive and don't miss opportunities because you were waiting on a bull to come in on a string. It might happen, but it isn't likely. Also, don't listen to me because I've only killed the calf with antlers in my avatar.

 

[Eyeguy]

This is why I love this site…..threads like this. Not…."Where should I hunt…or tell me about your spots". Anyone can take the knowledge in this thread and apply it to areas that they already hunt! Great stuff!

 

[sra61]

The absolute best situation was always when we could follow that herd to their bedding area. They always shut up for a while, resting I think. Midday if you can get in fairly close within say 200 yds or so depending on cover, and then bugle like a big dog, most of the time that bull would come, and when they did it was with gusto. The cows get bedded and they don't want to move. That leaves the herd bull with a decision. He has to get up to fight, leave his cows to the interloper, or get all of those girls out of bed and moving. It's a tricky thing to get that close without spooking them, but once they have settled down for a while it gets good.

Another tactic that we had work real well was to take along one of those Montana Decoys. They are light weight and look pretty damned good. Most of the time if those bulls hadn't been decoyed much they worked damn good. All of their attention is on that decoy not on you drawing your bow.

We always had bulls located, every day even when they weren't really bugling much because we would drive the roads at night and locate them. They would always bugle at night. They might not be very vocal in the daylight, but if you know they are there and move in close they usually would answer. Knowing where they are is the biggest part of the battle.

One week is a little bit short. We always figured that if we spent 2 weeks we should have at least a good shot at killing. We could always find a way to screw it all up, but at least we got our chances.

Good luck. At least it sounds like you have an area with good numbers. That's something that a lot of us here in Montana took for granted in those pre-wolf days. One thing to remember with elk is to always try to think outside of the box. Make a lot of noise. Some bulls would come unglued when we would rub the crap out of a tree. Elk are really noisy when they are just moving around unspooked.

 

[teamhoyt]

very solid advice given here, as has been said several times, each day and each bull is different, try multiple things. Hunt the middle of the day and remember the wind! an elk will hear you 3 x, see you 2x but only smell you once!

 

[Redwood]

Some key points I've learned,some which have been mentioned.

Stay at it all day; the elk are out there, so should you.
Post your hunting partner behind you at least 50 yrds depending veg
If he comes in, hangs up, and then turns and leaves without be spooked you should stop calling for a few then move forward and set up on the path he previously came in on. He's already determined that was a safe path up to that point. You may be able to call him back up to that point.
Don't over call, he's looking for elk and calling allows him to focus on the source. If he doesn't see elk flags get thrown.
A decoy such as a mt decoy can be a huge plus.
Get up in the morning, get a high vantige point, and get above them.
Stay at it.