How old?

[WyoDoug]

Hard to tell. Lab aging would be more accurate based on centum growth on the teeth. But I am guessing older than 3.5. Past that, it's near impossible to tell from physical features once you pass that age. Older bucks have been found with smaller racks and that and even not much bulk in body size due to genetics or habitat.

 

[Dinkshooter]

I’ve found enougsheds from the same buck, even years apart to notice one thing, they either have it or they don’t. A big buck will blow up early and keep it.

 

[Dinkshooter]

The head never lies, older bucks get a dished out look between their eyes and antlers.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I believe that genetics play the biggest role on antler growth once they deer gets “mature”.

There are other significant factors, such as nutrition in utero and post birth, mineral composition of the soils, and quality of winter and summer ranges.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I stated that he wasn’t and then I asked if these deer who get to this stage of life would ever make it past 145—-even if they lived old enough to die of old age.

Since he's dead, a picture of the lower jaw would be a whole lot more useful for age estimation than blindly guessing at a morphological photo.

 

[Dinkshooter]

This buck was lab aged. Have a shed from him a year or 2 older. Nearly the same size but maybe a little lighter. Probably barely 150 ish. He was 8.5 years old

 

[EYJONAS!]

He asked me if I ever got a pic of him standing up. I did not. I took the picture bedded then I was looking though the spotter when he shot. I never hinted that he was close to 145. I stated that he wasn’t and then I asked if these deer who get to this stage of life would ever make it past 145—-even if they lived old enough to die of old age.

Lots of times people will say they won’t shoot a buck because he doesn’t score well and they want “give him another year”. Next year doesn’t mean that it would be bigger based on age alone. I believe that genetics play the biggest role on antler growth once they deer gets “mature”.
Anyway, here are some more pics from yesterday. He made a perfect shot with the 6.5 creed and 143 eldx. Buck went 12 yards and that was all she wrote. Super pretty cape that I’m going to mount a buck I killed a few years back with. I’m not sure where they stand on internet pics so I blocked the faces out. Orange was worn by all for all but the pics.

He's got a pretty cape for sure and I'm happy for the young man. I still think he's 3.5

 

[WyoDoug]

My experience, especially in Colorado is that the spread and length of snout tells you more about the age than bulk body size or antler mass or length but still not accurate past 3.5. Older bucks tend to become more solitary outside the rut and begin to wear down their teeth so they don't eat as much and start losing mass as a result. Very old bucks have a tougher time making it through the winter because they are not as healthy and might freeze to death or become a meal for a predator.

 

[Stubaby]

The youngster was pumped and his dad was jumping around. Fun to watch. I noticed that the first thing he did after the buck fell was clear the chamber and make sure he gun wasn’t loaded before he did anything else.
Here’s some more pics from our group. We only had two days to fill 3 tags. All public land.

good luck to all.

 

[The Hedgehog]

This reminds me of all those guess the score threads where the guy with the antlers never puts a tape on it at the end and everybody argues over the unknown measurements.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Even better, a picture of a rack and the prior year sheds that was never aged.

 

[ZMT588]

There are other significant factors, such as nutrition in utero and post birth, mineral composition of the soils, and quality of winter and summer ranges.

I figured nutrition was always number one when it comes to antler growth. Ain't that how they grow them on game farms in texas? pump them full of that good good?

 

[EYJONAS!]

I figured nutrition was always number one when it comes to antler growth. Ain't that how they grow them on game farms in texas? pump them full of that good good?

Genetics, deer are bred and sold to other farms to improve genetics.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

This reminds me of all those guess the score threads where the guy with the antlers never puts a tape on it at the end and everybody argues over the unknown measurements.

Probably worthy of a kick to the junk.

 

[Dinkshooter]

Sheds. Doing different things but certainly not jumping in “rack bracketing” size.

 

[tjones]

This reminds me of all those guess the score threads where the guy with the antlers never puts a tape on it at the end and everybody argues over the unknown measurements.

And the guessing is down to the 1/8 of an inch.

 

[Dinkshooter]

All of which leads me to believe the OPs deer in question is......mid life!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I figured nutrition was always number one when it comes to antler growth. Ain't that how they grow them on game farms in texas? pump them full of that good good?

Nutrition is a little more complex than that. You have to consider levels of calcium, phosphate, and a host of other trace minerals. Also, quality of protein is pretty key.

 

[Bambistew]

Looks like an older buck to me. Face color, head size, nose, etc. I'd say 4-5+

As far as using antlers, outside of maybe mass as an indicator, about the only thing that seems to be pretty common in mature mule deer bucks (this probably obvious to many) are thicker/wider/bigger eyeguards, regardless of the size of the rack. They get thicker and more bladed the older they get. Many young bucks lack them of any size until they get to 3-4, or they are really pointy/thin. That said they aren't obvious in the picture due to clarity, but the rest of the body looks like an old mature buck to me.

Edit: the kill pictures changed my mind. He's 2-3yo would be my guess.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

This is long, there's a pic at the end for the impatient.

I've thought about this quite a bit from a biological standpoint, talked to quite a few people about it. I did a big annotated bibliography years ago in grad school that covered over 100 publications on antler formation, morphology, and function. I am far from an expert, I've just looked into it some. There are a few things I feel like there is a preponderance of evidence on, others not so much.

For instance, I buy that the nutrition of the mother doe while buck X is in utero (great Nirvana album btw) matters a bunch for the potential antler size of buck X. Relatedly, I can believe that habitat quality matters big time...the Monteith whitetail study gets cited a lot. They did a swap of whitetails from known "big buck" country and "small buck" country; the bucks from "small buck" country grew big antlers when they were in big buck habitat. If I recall there was no statistically significant difference in antler size when habitat differences were accounted for by the swap. That said, I am skeptical about how widely that can be applied.

We know that genetics set the morphological sideboards for what antlers (and any other physical characteristics) will look like. Nutrition is a substantial factor that would influence an animal's ability to achieve a given expression of those characteristics, but there is a lot more to it. For example, if buck X and buck Y are both putting on adequate fat reserves, does the native level of Mg, P, Ca, in forage a factor into why one might express greater antler growth than the other? What role does selective harvest play in some units with very high or very low hunter pressure? Almost all antler research with controllable variables has been conducted on whitetail deer in the midwest and Texas or on reindeer; are we assuming too much about the extent to which principles can be applied across cervid species? How about nutrition and management for migratory vs non-migratory mule deer herds?

Anyway, I don't think that buck has been or would be a 150" deer. Could definitely be wrong. The oldest deer I've killed (based on tooth wear only) were tanks and had long square faces. I feel pretty confident watching one saunter around on a hill that I can tell between youngish and oldish -- young dinks obvious and excluded -- even with roughly comparably scoring antlers, but that's about it. I don't think most of the better scoring bucks I've killed are what I'd consider old.

This is definitely the oldest buck I've killed, no idea on specific age. If I recall he scored in the low or mid 150's. I don't see his frame being capable of much more than another 10" or so tops even if this is a regressed condition. Not only based on this deer, but hundreds of other bucks in that area observed over many years.



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That deer looks like a cow. Awesome.