How many people...

[Cameron Hunt]

I read it most of the time and laugh my ass off at IT and Tenbears and Elkgunner go at it.. Hey IT I read something here that went like this " I dont read any of the posts because so many people are biased and dont give every side of every issue when they post" Damn you argue one side very well.... heheheheehee

 

[Hangar18]

Ithaca & MarlandS
As far as Sportsmans' Issues go, my concerns lie in the revokation of the use of public lands. My snowmobiling interests are directly impacted by attempted closures of those public lands. You know this, we have talked about it before. Ithaca, I think you would be surprised at how often you and I would share the same opinions about topics you choose to post here. Because this is a hunting forum, not a snowmobile forum, my opinions about public land care and use differ based on what season it is. Outside of snowmobiling, I advocate and practice human powered activities. I grew up on a ranch at the foot of Teton Pass, Wyoming and learned how to take care of our land so it could be passed on it the same condition as it was when I enjoyed it. I apply that to all the lands I recreate on, and teach my son to do the same. At the same time, I see the use of snowmobiles as not impacting the land in any way, unless I hit a tree LOL! The tree still heals. Other than air pollution at the West Entrance of Yellowstone Park on President's Day weekend, snowmobiles are not environmentally harmful. I have seen exactly one moose in my 30 years of riding, and not because I don't ride in the backcountry. When skiers started showing up in these areas, and then decided they wanted this areas to themselves, that's when the so-called 'conflicts' began to occur. How does this relate? When public lands are put up for wilderness or primative / semi-primative roadless classification or motorized closure, I lose my right to ride there.

So does that explain my somewhat reluctance to discuss this with you? We think both differently and the same. I am confused

. I ride a deep powder / mountain snowmobile in the backcountry and a mountain bike to work. I hunt on foot only, but have killed one deer in 12 years of having a hunting license.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-02-2003 21:48: Message edited by: HANGAR 18 ]</font>

 

[Ithaca 37]

Hanger, I understand. I really don't have anything against snowmobiles as long as they aren't used near wintering game. I do think it's ridiculous that the pollution gets so bad in Yellowstone that employees have to wear respirators, and that should be addressed---as it is being now. The only other snowmobile issue that I care about is leaving some areas free of all the snowmobile noise for people who just want to enjoy the peace and quiet. That's where the Wilderness and Roadless areas come in. I think there are plenty of areas for snowmobiling without infringing on them. There seems to be an insatiable desire on the part of many motorized vehicle users to be able to drive everywhere they feel like and that's where the BRC goes overboard IMO. After having met Clark Collins and heard his views many years ago I'd never trust him. As usual, he's had to try to sound more moderate as his organization grew. Most group founders are pretty radical or they wouldn't be interested in becoming activists, but they usually have to modify their message to attract a large following.

I started riding a snowmobile in 1961 and raced them alot in the first few years they were on the market, so I understand something about riding them and the issues that developed over the years.

I enjoy quiet forms of recreation now.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-02-2003 22:33: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Muledeer4me]

Hanger ,keep posting.
The fact that you are working to help keep public land open IS THE ISSUE.
As well as the fact that you are willing to accept other form's of recreation.

I don't ride or own a snowmachine,I cross country ski.
I look at this issue as both an hunter & outdoor recreationist.
When I us my ATV during hunting season Im do so in both a legal and ethical manner.
Im willing to accept restriction's,Im not willing to sit back and watch while a few poster's try put down whole group's of good people that love the land as much as they do.

You know first hand how many of these issue's will effect a wide range of people and there interest's.
As a memebr of the motorized population it is up to us to try to help other's understand that we are more alike them different.( I know it wont work with Ithaca ) he know's all the answer's,but what about someone that only read's this forum?
If it were left up to Ithaca all anyone would see is the bad in everything.

From your post you can see both side's,that is all I was trying to show when I started posting down here.
That not ever ATV rider-hunter is out to do damage or ride all over hells half acre.
I know how I ride and I know what type of people I ride with and they are not what's being portrayed by some people here.
You can not sit back and let it slide ,because the assult on public land's and the push to close more off does effect YOU.
All of us ATV-snowmachine rider's that have posted here have been for some restristion's and have stood up and said we need to get it under control,yet we still get hammered ,we still get called name's,WHY?
I think it's because restriction's are not the real reason some people are posting here!!!!!!!
Real answer's ,real idea's about how to help the problem are not what some people want.
They want YOU OUT,they want ME OUT,they want EVERYONE OUT that isn't doing it just like they do.
Dont get confused on the issue's ,just because you own a snowmachine will not set you apart from the rest of us motorized user's.
Only by people like yourself having the backbone to post will we have the chance to keep thing's open and get good sound restriction's put into place .
Just as you are trying to get across that you have a love for the land and a will to see it taken care of,so do all of us,even those of us that are put in the fat asses lazy atv group's.
It's not only about the hunting for me,it's the whole picture and I can not look at it as only one issue.
Grazing,hunting,ATV,snowmachine's,Mt.Bike's,watercraft,even horse's are comming under this assult .
Keep at it & keep supporting the BRC .

 

[Muledeer4me]

"After having met Clark Collins and heard his views many years ago I'd never trust him. As usual, he's had to try to sound more moderate as his organization grew. Most group founders are pretty radical or they wouldn't be interested in becoming activists, but they usually have to modify their message to attract a large following."


Clark Collins?
Use the name's Ithaca or Jon Marvel and that statment will still be right on the money.
Only the name's have been changed to protect the guilty ROFLMAO

 

[JoseCuervo]

Those are huge stretches of the imagination to believe that Publicl Lands Grazing by Welfare Ranchers is somehow tied to restrictions on Fat-Assed ATV Riders.

Grazing restrictions are coming about due to ESA issues, Econonmic, and Rangeland and Habitat quality issues.

I have yet to see the first ESA issue brought up as a reason to restrict ATV's. Please provide me any information where ESA is a contributing cause of ATV restrictions.

The only ATV bans I have ever seen proposed were to block ALREADY illegal activities.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Gunner, It's all part of the conspiracy to lock everything up and shut us out of everywhere.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Wow... MD says that Marvel has tried to sound more moderate as his organization has grown.... That is the first I have ever heard that description....

And I do think Ithica is too Moderate. He is going to get hit while standing in the Middle of the Road. Since he won't come out for banning Public Lands Grazing.

 

[Hangar18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ithaca 37:
There seems to be an insatiable desire on the part of many motorized vehicle users to be able to drive everywhere they feel like and that's where the BRC goes overboard IMO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The B.R.C. DOES NOT advocate irresponsible use of ORVs. They preach the opposite, knowing full well that misuse leads to closures. I posted their policies and positions previously. Their members, me included, are charged with reporting irresponsible use and do so enthusiastically. It would be interesting to see how many of those caught tearing up land are BRC members. I won't speculate.
As for the respirators at YNP, that occurs once a year (a total of two times) for photo opps and are provided by groups that advocate a ban on the use of snowmobiles in the park. That's not to say the air is unhealthful at these times. A simple change in procedure regarding park entry would solve this issue, but the ban advocates are not interested in solutions. Sleds are not ORVs when it comes to the park. They are only allowed on groomed trails over roads. More enforcement and stiffer penalties are needed, and a transition to 4-stroke sleds. No one needs to ride a modded out mountain sled in the park.

There are over 13 million acres of wilderness & roadless class public lands in Idaho. Add the areas that are closed to sleds which include winter range and areas like Bogus Basin & Jughandle, and like you said, there are plenty of places for quiet experience. Next on the list among others are those areas "needed" for cat skiing near McCall. Please explain why they need still more area? I am at a loss for a logical justification of this.

 

[Oak]

Here you guys go, mucking up my topic...

Oak

 

[Hangar18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colorado Oak:
Here you guys go, mucking up my topic...

Oak<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry OAK

Black Bart

 

[JoseCuervo]

Oak,

Great topic, and sorry that it got derailed. Here is the mid-topic Summary:

DM423, Bullhound, Whiskers, Hangar18, and Cameron Hunt are the only posters who answered correctly (ie.. don't post, do read, and why).

Then we have the following Smart Asses, who can't keep quiet, but just wanted to make jokes: Moosie, DelW, Calif Hunter, ElkGunner, Ithica, CJCJ, and Danr55.

Then we have those who tried to make SI a better place: Ten Bears, Elkgunner, Ithica (How often do you see those 3 names on the same side of an issue?

), and MarlandS.

And then there was Muledeer4me, who posted four times and I couldn't quite group them in with the other posts.

Then we had Hangar18 further claifying his point, and Ithica understanding, then MD kind of encouraging, until she took a shot at Ithica and then encouraged Hangar to defend Grazing, Hunting, ATV, Snowmachines, Mt. Bikes, watercraft, horses, comic book heroes and parachuting

, and then another post where she addressed Ithica's reference to Clark Collins. Then we had a bit of Sanity brought back to the thread by Yours Truly. And concurrence from Ithica.

, another smart-assed comment by Yours Truly

. Then Hangar and his support of the BRC to address Ithica's opinion.

And finally, Oak pointing out how his good topic was de-railed and an apology by Hangar.

So, at Halftime we have he following Score:

People who responded correctly = 5
People who are Smart Asses = 7
People who try to make SI a better place = 4
People who are Muledeer4me = 1

People who are incredibly articulate and correct on most issues in SI = 1 (ElkGunner)

Hey Marland, can you "nuke" the off-topic posts, and see if we can actually get more people to answer Oak's question. It is amazing that many hunters don't care about these issues, but maybe they do, but just don't post.

Or maybe we only have a few issues that matter: Welfare Ranchers, Fat-Assed ATV Riders , and Salmon/dams. Don't the people in other states have issues? Or are these broader than my Idaho perspective, as they all seem like they are "Idaho" issues.

 

[Hangar18]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elkgunner:
[QB]Oak,

Great topic, and sorry that it got derailed. Here is the mid-topic Summary:

...And finally, Oak pointing out how his good topic was de-railed and an apology by Hangar.
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All in all, I think you summed it up well Elkgunner, especially your "Sanity of being too Moderate" thesis, but you forgot the official announcement by Black Bart.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 06-03-2003 19:11: Message edited by: HANGAR 18 ]</font>

 

[MarlandS]

Elkgunner, if I nuked the posts that were off-topic, MD4M would rarely get to speak ( Hi MD

)and the threads would be way shorter....
It would be way better if the posters pulled their own off-topics then I don't get accused of being the Gestapo (but I look really good in the uniform).

 

[Oak]

Hey guys, I was just joking.

Some of the best argu...er, discussions start in topics they had nothing to do with. Carry on...

Gunner, good summary! Glad to see someone knows what's going on!

Oak

 

[pipedreams]

i read the si topics daily...only posted once or twice...i hate to type!

 

[Muledeer4me]

Go #$@% yourselfs .

You can stick the Ithaca's topic forum up your ass and have the front row seat while Ithaca & Elkgunner show us all how it's done.

 

[whitedeer]

Now, now Granny......don't hold back and keep it all bottled up.....tell us how you really feel!

 

[danr55]

Elkgunner, In amongst being a smartass, I've discovered some really important stuff... You can answer a question and tell someone they are basically full of crap and make them laugh at the same time... They tend to remember the laughing and don't worry too much about anything else... That way, we all stay friends.. well, at least maintain an amicable relationship.. Besides, if we didn't read these posts, why would we be here? If you want to get right down to it... Anyone who answers the question is responding positively about the first question.. Otherwise, they wouldn't have responded.... Get it??

Directly from the Department of Redundancy Department....

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I answered the original question in two words, agreeing with previous posters... "Me, too." and now I'm called a smart ass? I'm crushed.

And they wonder why more people don't post down here?