noharleyyet
Well-known member
Whisper....short version of CDS/M1 attributes/differences please.
Swaro and Zeiss offer similar mod possibilities?
Swaro and Zeiss offer similar mod possibilities?
How many of you shoot adjustable turrets
- Thread starter pseshooter300
- Start date
Elkwhisper
Well-known member
CDS (Custom Dial System) is an option we offer on several VX-3, VX-R and now VX-2 models. It is a slightly elevated elevation turret. When you buy the scope at retail, it has the normal 1/4 MOA hash marks / clicks you are used to on any other scope. You will mount, boresight, and zero your rifle just as you would any other scope. Once you have determined the load you wish to shoot, you contact the Leupold custom shop to collect your free CDS dial. You will be asked, the caliber, bullet weight, ballistic co-efficient, muzzle velocity, elevation, temperature etc.... The more accurate and detailed you are with the information you feed the custom shop, the more accurate yoru dial will be. The custom shop will mail you the dial. There are three allen screws holding the generic dial that came with your scope in place. Loosen those three screws and the dial will lift up off of the post it sits on. Install your new custom dial, being sure to index it to your 200 yard zero. Tighten the screws and get to shooting..... The new dial will have a zero stop, so that you can always get back to your 200 yard zero in a hurry, even with out looking at the dial. This will limit you to one revolution, which should get most big game calibers out to about 700 yards. The one revolution thing is actually a good thing, as there is no way to get lost and loose count of how many revolutions you spun the dial.
The M1 dial is a tactical dial that we offer on our Mark 4 scopes. It is a much more agressive looking knurled dial. It is also a 1/4 MOA dial. It to can be laser engraved with the same custom dial information the CDS has. The major difference is that the M1 dial can reach out farther, due to the fact that it does not have a zero stop and you can dial more than one revolution. For those of you who shoot a lot and are in need of something that can get out to extreme ranges, this is a better choice than the CDS. Howver for most of us who are just looking to get out to 500 yards or so, the CDS is a much simpler and less expensive choice.
Also, we are currently offering a second free CDS dial with the purchase of any CDS scope through April.
Hope this helps.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Thank you.
Yes, Swaro and Zeiss offer similar turrets, but not on all models. IIRC, Zeiss only offers a MOA and the Swaro can be had that is load specific. Again, IIRC it's like $65 for the Zeiss option and $200 to have a Swaro converted.
Elkwhisper- Not sure really how to word this question, but what have you found is the working range in elevation/altitude? For example, if I send you my load info with an altitude of 5000 feet above sea level, how high and low in elevation would you think that CDS dial would be appropriate?
FWIW, I asked this question of a custom gunmaker whom you build scopes for and he has his set at 7000ft ASL and says that has worked for him out to 1000yds anywhere he's hunted in the west. He figured that turrets calibrated for 2000ft ASL and 7000ft ASL would probably cover anything in the US. Just curious as to your opinion on that subject.
FWIW, I asked this question of a custom gunmaker whom you build scopes for and he has his set at 7000ft ASL and says that has worked for him out to 1000yds anywhere he's hunted in the west. He figured that turrets calibrated for 2000ft ASL and 7000ft ASL would probably cover anything in the US. Just curious as to your opinion on that subject.
pseshooter300
Member
Ya that is what I wonder sighting in the scope here in Tn and going to Wy how is that going to affect the way I have it sighted in
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Thanks pointer.
CABugle
New member
After getting my CDS set up last year, I don't think I could shoot a gun without it agian. The only thing i'm dissapointed with is that I didn't do it sooner.
CABugle
CABugle
JoseCuervo
New member
Just exactly what was the problem that these turrets "solved"?
They seem like a terribly elegant solution, but not sure what problem has suddenly been solved.
They seem like a terribly elegant solution, but not sure what problem has suddenly been solved.
The problem solved was the amount of "Hold Over" needed beyond your rifles sighted in distance - in other words, range it, dial it, hold dead on.
JoseCuervo
New member
At what distances is that a problem?
putm2sleep
New member
Heck with the talk, let's see your set up boys@!
Anywhere beyond your point blank range, which will of course depend on your chambering, load, and preferences.
Blacktailbc
Well-known member
I'm not sure why the turret scopes are just now catching on. They are nothing new. I shot my first buck in 1989, with a .270 topped with an old (even at that time) Redfield Accu-trac with adjustable turrets. This ad is from 1978
Tasco also made a similar set up that I used for years. A 6-24 with the rangefinding reticle and different dials for different calibers. They were not as exact as todays stuff, but pretty darn close. The tough part back then was the range estimation......the dials were pretty spot on. I have never really hunted without one.
Tasco also made a similar set up that I used for years. A 6-24 with the rangefinding reticle and different dials for different calibers. They were not as exact as todays stuff, but pretty darn close. The tough part back then was the range estimation......the dials were pretty spot on. I have never really hunted without one.
JoseCuervo
New member
You can't hit anything beyond point blank range without turrets???
I guess I have got lucky for many years.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Sure you can use hold-over successfully, I did it for many years as well.
But, it sure doesnt suck to be able to just concentrate on holding dead on no matter the range with a quick spin of a turret. My shooting at 300-800 yards on paper/steel improved drasticially with turrets, mainly because I didnt have to worry about hold-over.
Plus, the center of your optics is always the best place to be...
Definitely dont need them though.
But, it sure doesnt suck to be able to just concentrate on holding dead on no matter the range with a quick spin of a turret. My shooting at 300-800 yards on paper/steel improved drasticially with turrets, mainly because I didnt have to worry about hold-over.
Plus, the center of your optics is always the best place to be...
Definitely dont need them though.
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
I think the CDS turrets are a great tool and extremely easy to learn to use. My personal opinion is that if you want to maximize the precision of your shot placement you need to be able to hold dead on where you intend to hit and for any given shooter this will be a more effective method than holdover. We use them on our sniper and special purpose rifles in the US Army, the soldiers really like them, and it increases our lethality (especially in places like AFG where we shoot long distances all the time). The only draw back might be you are making a commitment to a specific load, but for most I don't think this is a big issue.
The other reason I really like them is that you aren't tied to one magnafication setting, like you are with most bullet-drop compensation reticles. Some scopes are available where the reticle is in the first focal pane, in which case your reticle changes size relative to the target as you adjust magnafication, but these scopes are quite a bit more expensive too. Last year I bought a VX-3 3.5-10 and with my caliber (30-06) I have to have my scope set on 7x for the reticle to match the ballistics of the round. By spending some time on the range I was able to determine the ranges where the different aimpoints would hit at 10x, similar to what Nikon does with the SPOT program on their website.
As for "micrometer-like" turret systems (read: Leupold M1 or M2 turrets) that are graduated in minute-of-angle or milradian. My personal feeling is they provide more flexibility to the shooter, but require a more in-depth knowledge of the system and more time on the range to develop a set of "dope" or "come-ups" for the loads. I would say they are best employed by someone who is going to spend alot of time on the range and wants to experiment with different loads and longer range shooting (outside 400m).
The other reason I really like them is that you aren't tied to one magnafication setting, like you are with most bullet-drop compensation reticles. Some scopes are available where the reticle is in the first focal pane, in which case your reticle changes size relative to the target as you adjust magnafication, but these scopes are quite a bit more expensive too. Last year I bought a VX-3 3.5-10 and with my caliber (30-06) I have to have my scope set on 7x for the reticle to match the ballistics of the round. By spending some time on the range I was able to determine the ranges where the different aimpoints would hit at 10x, similar to what Nikon does with the SPOT program on their website.
As for "micrometer-like" turret systems (read: Leupold M1 or M2 turrets) that are graduated in minute-of-angle or milradian. My personal feeling is they provide more flexibility to the shooter, but require a more in-depth knowledge of the system and more time on the range to develop a set of "dope" or "come-ups" for the loads. I would say they are best employed by someone who is going to spend alot of time on the range and wants to experiment with different loads and longer range shooting (outside 400m).
mrmedora
Member
Loving this thread. I bought a VX 3 before the 2011 ND deer season and havn't sent in for the custom dial yet. Now reading this thread I have the itch to get my info in to Leupold and test out the new dial in this crazy mild "winter" we are having!
JoseCuervo
New member
So the problem they are solving is people that shoot different loads at animals over 400 meters away didn't know where their bullets were hitting?
Can you go thru your pre-shot routine to be able to use this solution?
For some reason, this reminds me of the Leupold Salesman.....
BuzzH
Well-known member
No, not what he's saying at all.
He's saying that the M1's can be adjusted to any load, any rifle, any zero range without changing caps.
The cds caps, if pre-etched, are good for one specific load and if you put that scope on a different rifle you have to get a new cap etched.
M1's you just run another ballistic table for the specific caliber, load, and zero range you want and rock on.
There is no question that being able to hold directly on target will always trump hold-over...it becomes very apparent once you actually do some long-range shooting. Its pretty difficult for me to shoot any kind of consistant group at distances over 400 yards using hold-over.
He's saying that the M1's can be adjusted to any load, any rifle, any zero range without changing caps.
The cds caps, if pre-etched, are good for one specific load and if you put that scope on a different rifle you have to get a new cap etched.
M1's you just run another ballistic table for the specific caliber, load, and zero range you want and rock on.
There is no question that being able to hold directly on target will always trump hold-over...it becomes very apparent once you actually do some long-range shooting. Its pretty difficult for me to shoot any kind of consistant group at distances over 400 yards using hold-over.
