How far is too far?

[mdunc8]

So I picked up some new arrows and a new set of sights, which have made a world of difference in my shooting. I was always confident in my accuracy out to 40 yards (I only had three pins so I never shot past 40), but the level and circle frame on the new sights have drastically increased the consistency of my anchor point and release and gave me another two pins. Today I was shooting very accurately out to 60 yards (until the wind picked up). As I mentioned a couple weeks ago, I'm shooting a Hoyt Raider made in 1994. I'm probably pulling between 55-60lbs. I'm not sure exactly how fast it is, but I plan to get that figured out in the next few weeks (I would be surprised is it's faster than 250fps). As far a accuracy goes, I wouldn't have a problem pulling the trigger on an elk at 60 yards given the right circumstances, but I'm not sure that I would get the penetration I need. What distance do you think is too far for a elk? Keep in mind I'm talking about a broadside or slightly quartering away shot.

 

[Big Slick]

Now you have to figure in the weight of your arrows and your broadheads. Is your bow this accurate shooting broadheads?

 

[BOHNTR]

Hoyt Raider set at 55-60 lbs......I would guess somewhere around 215-225 fps depending on arrow selection. IMO, there's no reason to shoot an elk at 60 yards with any set-up.......they're really not too difficult to get in closer........and they're MUCH different than a foam target. JMO though.

 

[mdunc8]

Good point. I'm using Easton Carbon Storms (400 gr) and 100 gr broadheads. The arrows were pretty cheap and I'm thinking about bumping up to some higher quality arrows later in the summer as the season approaches. Am I shooting the right weight arrows or should I switch it up?

Not sure about broadheads out there. My arrow flight looks good, but not sure how that's going to translate to broadheads over that far a distance. Both my expandables and fixed blades are good to 40. I haven't shot them out to 60.

 

[mdunc8]

I agree BOHNTR. I got within 30 yards of a few nice bulls last year, but was never quite able to close the deal. Being my first season hunting elk, I think I was a little too cautious on my stalks and setups. I was used to hunting whitetails my whole life and didn't realize just how easy (relative to whitetails) it was to stalk or call in elk.

 

[upper deck]

I would surprised if you arrows weight 500 total grains. They are probably 400 spine. Depending on the length of the arrow I would guess they would be pretty close to the right spine. If you want to pm me you arrow weight and speed I can send you your KE out to 100 yards.

 

[shoots-straight]

One of the toughest animals to take with a bow is the Elk. The numbers of elk wounded and lost from archers shooting what they think is a sure shot is way too high. Consider what you think your guaranteed killing range is, and then subtract 10 yards. Every one's is going to be different. Long range usually results in wounded and lost animals.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Off the cuff and off the top of my head. Your arrows are .400 spine not 400 grains. Most carbons average around 8 grains per inch. My guess is that your total arrow weight is in the 420-440 grains max. Your actual arrow speed will make a huge difference in how much kinetic energy you have.
Your arrow would probably have enough energy at 60 yards to get complete penetration with a SHARP fixed blade head. (not all fixed blade heads are created equal) but I would be hesitent to shoot a bull at 60 yards with a mech head with your setup.

All things considered, the biggest problem is accuracy at that distance. For myself my practice regimine usually yields much better accuracy than field conditions when the adrenile gland is in full production. Also, 3-D targets don't duck, move, or anything else in the time it takes your arrow to cover the 180 feet. 3/4 of a second is a long time if an elk decides to take a step just as you release.

 

[mdunc8]

I think 40 yards is probably more of a realistic limit. I'm grouping arrows within the kill zone at 60, but that's with field tips shooting at a bag. At 40 yards, I'm still shooting relatively flat and can't imagine pulling a shot outside the kill zone. Now I'm thinking about continuing to practice out to 60, but pull my 50 and 60 yard pins before the season starts to make sure I don't do anything stupid. I'm going to figure out my fps and arrow weight tomorrow and get back to you. I was told tonight that with a bow as slow as mine the arrow weight doesn't make that much of a difference, but I'd still like some input on what I should be using.

 

[Outdooraddict]

I agree with mdunc8, you're looking at 40 yards tops for an ethical shot. I'd also go with a two blade fixed broadhead to get the entry you want... less cutting surface= less drag (deeper penetration) if you want to try longer distances. Good luck.

 

[Gerald Martin]

mdunc8,

Practicing at further distances than you want to shoot is a great idea. I have pins on my bow out to 70 yards and would have further if it wouldn't clutter up my sight picture.
As far as taking the pins off.... Why? Just exercise some self discipline. I want pins for even further than I would normally shoot for the scenario of putting another arrow into an animal that may be hit poorly or even hit well, that stops within a 100 yds to try and figure out what's going on. My philosophy is once I've hit an animal with an arrow I want to finish it as quickly as possible. Hence, if I've drawn blood and I can still see the animal, I will take shots that I would never consider if the animal was unwounded.

Shooting long distances at wounded animals is not unethical, its the logical and ethical thing to do.

Now if you know that you won't have the self control to not shoot when an unwounded animal is standing at a distance you have a pin for, then by all means take off those 50 and 60 yard pins.
Ultimately it all comes down to knowing your limitations and being disciplined about sticking to that.

 

[Outdooraddict]

Well, I guess I meant to agree with you the second time...

Forgot you asked the question.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

I'm glad you posted this question, even though it was in regards to your bow & setup, as someone new to archery (2+ months) and preparing (almost daily) for my first bow hunt, which will be Arizona mule deer in August.

I try to shoot every day, 30-50 arrows, in differing light conditions and usually am able to do that 5-6 days a week on average. I'm really proficient on a target at 20 yards and am just cranking it up to 30 yards now with a target of 50 by hunt time (<40 yard shots) so we'll see what my ethical range is before the hunt.

I'm shooting a new bow @ 300+ fps, so I may have more penetration power from a longer distance, but I routinely hear guys talking about 70-80 yard shots & I hope they're just yanking my chain. Seems like that's out of bow range (on an animal that's not wounded) no matter who is doing the shooting.

40 seems about right to me from a common sense standpoint.

 

[mdunc8]

Gerald, good point about the second shot possibility. I'm not really worried about taking any unethical shots. I think I could exert some self restraint even if it was a big bull. I'm actually probably overly conservative with the shots I've taken and pride myself in never having lost an animal. I definitely don't want to break the streak on a nice bull. Thanks for the advice.