How do cattle herds effect elk population?

[commandoNate]

I've been curious about this for some time now and have yet to find a definitive answer. Probably because there isn't one... but maybe it will make for some spirited debate.

I hunted an area during muzzle loader season this past fall in Colorado where there had clearly been a large cattle heard grazing up there in the late summer. It was about a 4 mile backpack into a wilderness area with national forest roads and larger camps down in the valleys below. (hopefully pressuring the elk up to where we hunt) When I was scouting just a few weeks before the season opened I even came across a HUGE black angus bull all by himself at 10,000'! I felt like we were seeing less elk sign than expected both scouting and hunting. 2 of us hunted 8 full days and had only one elk encounter, a bull at almost point blank range in some heavy timber but we had 2 cow tags. We spent a good amount of time glassing meadows and clearings both big and small, hunted over water, still hunted the timber, we tried a number of strategies but we left both tags un filled in the end. Clearly there were a number of other factors at play but what do you all think about the recent presence of cattle grazing doing to the elk in the area?

As a side note, and I confess to not know much about cattle grazing leases but I was surprised to have seen cattle in a wilderness area. Is this common and I've just never run into it before?

 

[JoseCuervo]

I am guessing those were feral cattle.

You should have just shot them and removed the competition for food for the elk.

 

[sasquatch]

Big problem here in Washington. They eat the same thing.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

In my opinion cattle do not have too much of an impact on elk herd location. Where I typically hunt in Western Wyo I see cattle all summer and into the archery season in the same basins, drainages and waterholes that I see elk. Sure the cattle have an impact on how much summer and fall food source is available for the elk but the summer and fall is not usually the limiting factor, the winter feed is. In the winter the elk are at the feed grounds or on winter range and the cattle are eating hay. I have noticed a dispersal of game animals at times when the ranchers move their herds in during the summer but this is usually lower down. The cattle will, for the most part, move up and come down with out too much pressuring. Of all the factors that influenced you not filling your tag this past season I would say the presence of cattle in the summer or fall was not a large factor.

 

[belly-deep]

I don't think one black angus bull would run all the elk off.

I think that generally, elk and cattle don't jive. But that's not to say cattle were the problem. Elk are plenty happy to mingle when so inclined.

I would love to hunt amongst the cattle on various private ranches here in MT.

 

[Ben Long]

Livestock grazing has traditionally been allowed in Wilderness Areas, because most often grazing leases predate the 1964 Wilderness Act.

 

[commandoNate]

I would love to hunt amongst the cattle on various private ranches here in MT.

Damn that's a great point right there.

Maybe a better question for me to have asked in my first post would have been the following. If while scouting you come across cattle grazing a particular area would that turn you away from hunting that area?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Damn that's a great point right there.

Maybe a better question for me to have asked in my first post would have been the following. If while scouting you come across cattle grazing a particular area would that turn you away from hunting that area?

Yes. I've never had good luck elk hunting close to cattle. I'd look in nearby drainages until I find a place where there are no cattle. I'm talking about herds though. One or two domestic cows on their own are not going to run the elk out of an area.

 

[sagebrush]

I've seen elk feeding and watering with cattle in AZ and NV with regularity. However, I've seen far more with species separated, one feeding or watering, moving on and the other come right in behind. I don't think cattle impact elk unless the range is improperly managed.

Yes, you will seen cattle in wilderness areas more often than not.

 

[shoots-straight]

Elk will use a different pasture if they can. Water holes (on the ground, natural) will be contaminated by cattle and I've found the Elk won't use cattle pissed water.

On a private ranch close by my house, I see elk utilized the irrigated pastures all the time. As the cattle are moved from pasture to pasture the elk move too, usually where the cattle aren't.

 

[mtmander]

I see cattle and elk in the same pasture and they seem to ignore east other (in montana)

 

[shootbrownelk]

Elk will use a different pasture if they can. Water holes (on the ground, natural) will be contaminated by cattle and I've found the Elk won't use cattle pissed water.

On a private ranch close by my house, I see elk utilized the irrigated pastures all the time. As the cattle are moved from pasture to pasture the elk move too, usually where the cattle aren't.

I've seen lots of water sources, springs/seeps/creeks totally destroyed by cattle in some areas I used to hunt. It seems a few ranchers always wait until just before Elk season to "Round Up" their cattle and run the Elk off onto private ground. Top Gun knows who I'm talking about. I don't hunt there anymore.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I've seen elk and cattle in the same feeding and watering areas. Though they do seem to water at different times, they have no problem grazing in close proximity.
Antelope also have no problem sharing pastures with cattle.

 

[mtmuley]

Elk will use a different pasture if they can. Water holes (on the ground, natural) will be contaminated by cattle and I've found the Elk won't use cattle pissed water.

On a private ranch close by my house, I see elk utilized the irrigated pastures all the time. As the cattle are moved from pasture to pasture the elk move too, usually where the cattle aren't.

Yep, this pretty much. If possible, elk stay away from cattle. mtmuley

 

[James Riley]

According to "Elk of North America, Ecology and Management", Thomas and Toweill, Wildlife Management Institute, Washington, D.C. (in Cooperation with USDA, USFS), pages 418 to 423, cattle have a negative impact on elk. There is too much scientific data on those pages for me to even put bullet points in this post. One figure though, is an estimate that "one elk had the competitive impact of .2 cow unit (cow plus calf)". You can reverse the math to show how many elk are displaced by a cow unit. There is also information on distances that elk prefer to maintain from cattle, though hunger and other considerations can force greater toleration. Distinctions between seasonal ranges, and slope, salt block distribution, monopoly and trashing of water sources, etc. will affect elk numbers (winter range feed put up in fall for cattle leaves less for elk when they come down; cattle on summer range limit food for elk up high, etc.).

 

[OriginalOscar]

I am guessing those were feral cattle.

You should have just shot them and removed the competition for food for the elk.

Idiotic! Destroy someones livelihood and give all hunters a bad rap.

 

[bobbydean]

That was my thought. Plus, jail time!

But with Jose, He may be making a sarcastic comment. Do not know.

 

[RobG]

Idiotic! Destroy someones livelihood and give all hunters a bad rap.

You often miss the facetiousness of the comments here. You may have been similarly wound up when, some time ago, I suggested cattle are stupid, but if we hunt them vigorously it will improve the breed. I was quoting Abbey, and personally wasn't serious as I feel the negative effects of souring hunter/rancher relations would negate the increase in elk forage, and any improvement in the breed would be overshadowed by the AI practices currently in place. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

 

[mtmuley]

You often miss the facetiousness of the comments here. You may have been similarly wound up when, some time ago, I suggested cattle are stupid, but if we hunt them vigorously it will improve the breed. I was quoting Abbey, and personally wasn't serious as I feel the negative effects of souring hunter/rancher relations would negate the increase in elk forage, and any improvement in the breed would be overshadowed by the AI practices currently in place. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.

And besides, feral cattle aren't anyone's livelihood. Probly can't just go around shooting them though. mtmuley

 

[Elkmagnet]

Sure the cattle have an impact on how much summer and fall food source is available for the elk but the summer and fall is not usually the limiting factor, the winter feed is. In the winter the elk are at the feed grounds or on winter range and the cattle are eating hay.

Cattle are grazed on big game wintering areas all summer/fall throughout the West.
Do you think new grass grows after October when the cows are pushed off and before the elk move down? So now there is plenty to eat because the cows are getting fat on hay?