Sober rhetoric is weak as well.looks like i shouldnt post after being at buddys 50 b-day party
House rep: Moose hunt would aid Isle Royale island, hunters
- Thread starter cheeser
- Start date
JM77
Well-known member
So let me get this straight; we put moose and wolves on an island, turn it into a National Park, and somehow man shouldn't be involved with an over populated moose herd? Buzz I totally disagree with you on this one. This whole Isle Royale thing is a man-made problem and we are now trying to solve it with more wolves. What happens when that doesn't work?
BuzzH
Well-known member
I don't agree with the need for people hunting those moose, on that Island, for all kinds of reasons that I find to be valid.
Its fine to disagree...but disagreeing doesn't make you right and me wrong, or vice versa.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I don’t follow. How is this a man-made problem?
Isle Royale National Park: Federally designated as Wilderness October 1976.
Let's stock pike in the Bob Marshall Wilderness to study how they interact with the cutthroat...
A simple 60 year natural genomic extensive inbreeding that caused extreme deformities on this 53 mile designated Wilderness led to the Natural extinction of wolves.
But hey, let's transplant wolves to further study this 60 +,- genetic mutation, in our National Park designated Wilderness.
Shows the power of wolves. $$$. Mr. Hyde's funding continues.
*Side note: They're not sure if moose naturally arrived or if humans transplanted moose for hunting in early 1900's.
Wolves originally naturally arrived around late 1940's and naturally went extinct 2009 +,-.
Let's stock pike in the Bob Marshall Wilderness to study how they interact with the cutthroat...
A simple 60 year natural genomic extensive inbreeding that caused extreme deformities on this 53 mile designated Wilderness led to the Natural extinction of wolves.
But hey, let's transplant wolves to further study this 60 +,- genetic mutation, in our National Park designated Wilderness.
Shows the power of wolves. $$$. Mr. Hyde's funding continues.
*Side note: They're not sure if moose naturally arrived or if humans transplanted moose for hunting in early 1900's.
Wolves originally naturally arrived around late 1940's and naturally went extinct 2009 +,-.
JM77
Well-known member
SMH
SAJ-99
Well-known member
That isn’t an answer other than to deflect. I am asking a legit question. Which part is a man made problem? I am trying to understand your perspective. It may be a view that differs from mine but a new perspective is always (ok most always) valuable. Remember, I’m the guy who said it would be perfectly fine for hunters to get permits to shoot the moose.
JM77
Well-known member
Fair enough SAJ. I for one believe there can be no such ecosystem, involving deer, elk bison, bears, wolves etc. that can or does sustain without human interference. Yellowstone Park is the perfect example. Humans don't hunt there, but we remove elk and bison from the population. Why? Because like Isle Royale, we think we'll toss in some wolves and problem solved. It doesn't work that way. Humans are part of the ecosystem, whether we like it or not.
There is nothing wrong with limited hunting to solve over population issues in National Parks. We already do it.
Issue is the human transplant of wolves for the purpose of studying inbreed deformities and mortality within our designated Wilderness of our National Park.
Naturally, wolves destroyed themselves while the initial focus was on population control of moose and wolves overall. However, it turned to the study of the abnormalities of genetic inbreeding as the wolves, in the course of only 60 years... Extinct.
National parks have nationally utilized overpopulated ungulates to feed Americans that could use such fantastic healthy meat, as a couple examples shared above.
Humans are part of the grand food chain and we have Americans that would be certainly grateful.
Naturally, wolves destroyed themselves while the initial focus was on population control of moose and wolves overall. However, it turned to the study of the abnormalities of genetic inbreeding as the wolves, in the course of only 60 years... Extinct.
National parks have nationally utilized overpopulated ungulates to feed Americans that could use such fantastic healthy meat, as a couple examples shared above.
Humans are part of the grand food chain and we have Americans that would be certainly grateful.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
I’m with you mostly. Mostly. The island is a unique opportunity to view nature without man. What we known is that wolf visits are rare, so they have a lot of genetic inbreeding resulting in a lot of problems and variations in population. There is considerable debate about the introduction of wolves for genetic diversity. My understanding was the general view was ‘No’. But man’s hubris thinks we can solve every problem so they did it anyway. So there is no man made problem - yet. Unless the less frequent freezing of Lake Superior due to global warming is in play.
I see nothing wrong with hunters being asked to reduce the population, just like I have no problem with nature taking its course. I’m not a big supporter of reintroducing wolves because it will eventually lead to more problems.
1eyedshooter
Member
OK who gets to hunt the moose ??
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Lottery. Just like everything else in the west. You could sell the tags via auction and I would be fine with it as long as the money went to good use (like my retirement
).I find it strange that a certain segment of humans view their own species as almost alien as it pertains to the environment.
Simple solution here guys: Go introduce a bill that amends the Isle Royale organic act to allow for hunting, then you can have the dsicussion about why it makes sense or not to hunt moose there.
P.S. - I'm not necessarily opposed to allowing hunting in specific parks for specific reasons, when it's proven to be needed. Not sure it is here.
P.P.S. TO think that some poor schlub who needs the meat is going to be one of the hunters ignores the expense of getting there w/your gear. Think of it more like choppering to the Durfee Hills, etc. It's a destination hunt in the middle of one of the largest fresh water bodies in the world. It's not like heading out to the local whitetail doe spot for some freezer meat.
P.S. - I'm not necessarily opposed to allowing hunting in specific parks for specific reasons, when it's proven to be needed. Not sure it is here.
P.P.S. TO think that some poor schlub who needs the meat is going to be one of the hunters ignores the expense of getting there w/your gear. Think of it more like choppering to the Durfee Hills, etc. It's a destination hunt in the middle of one of the largest fresh water bodies in the world. It's not like heading out to the local whitetail doe spot for some freezer meat.
The cost for a charter boat ride from Grand Portage to the island is under $100 so not close to the price of the Durfee Hills helicopter trip.
Plus many guys from MI alread take boats out there fishing in the summer so cost really isnt an issue and its only a 35 mile trip from MN.
Appreciate the correction.
Too many moose? Michigan lawmakers push for hunt on Isle Royale National Park
The proposal comes about a year after the Park Service began the controversial move of introducing more wolves to the island, bringing the wild canines in from Minnesota, Canada and the park's home state of Michigan.
@Ben Lamb , many of the National Parks conduct both public and government "Hunt" due to overpopulation, as you are aware.
With that, I'm 100% supportive (as it is a federal issue, thus my voice counts) of this "hunt" conducted by either or both - if it feeds families in need. Where hunters are able to hunt and proceeds of "x" %+ go to families in need and processing paid by the hunter as part of the fee to hunt Isle Royale.
I'm also not opposed to hunters paying a good fee for a "trophy" type Hunt for overpopulation where they gain the hunt experience and keep the cape/paddles, etc and the meat is at least 50%+ provided to Americans in need and the fees cover the butchering to further reduce cost associated for this in need.
Thoughts on an internet forum and my comments were sent to:
Isle Royale National Park
800 East Lakeshore Drive
Houghton, Michigan 49931-1896
"Contact us" via internal NPS email for Isle Royale w/ CC'd info shared and sent to the following @
Suggestions for other means to share opinions / ideas that might reach people in a position to consider? You are a guru for this type of activity.
Iij
You lost me at Americans in need. That's what SNAP is for. If the hunter wanted to donate some meat to charity that's completely another matter.Too many moose? Michigan lawmakers push for hunt on Isle Royale National Park
The proposal comes about a year after the Park Service began the controversial move of introducing more wolves to the island, bringing the wild canines in from Minnesota, Canada and the park's home state of Michigan.m.startribune.com
@Ben Lamb , many of the National Parks conduct both public and government "Hunt" due to overpopulation, as you are aware.
With that, I'm 100% supportive (as it is a federal issue, thus my voice counts) of this "hunt" conducted by either or both - if it feeds families in need. Where hunters are able to hunt and proceeds of "x" %+ go to families in need and processing paid by the hunter as part of the fee to hunt Isle Royale.
I'm also not opposed to hunters paying a good fee for a "trophy" type Hunt for overpopulation where they gain the hunt experience and keep the cape/paddles, etc and the meat is at least 50%+ provided to Americans in need and the fees cover the butchering to further reduce cost associated for this in need.
Thoughts on an internet forum and my comments were sent to:
Isle Royale National Park
800 East Lakeshore Drive
Houghton, Michigan 49931-1896
"Contact us" via internal NPS email for Isle Royale w/ CC'd info shared and sent to the following @
Suggestions for other means to share opinions / ideas that might reach people in a position to consider? You are a guru for this type of activity.
Last edited:
Too many moose? Michigan lawmakers push for hunt on Isle Royale National Park
The proposal comes about a year after the Park Service began the controversial move of introducing more wolves to the island, bringing the wild canines in from Minnesota, Canada and the park's home state of Michigan.
@Ben Lamb , many of the National Parks conduct both public and government "Hunt" due to overpopulation, as you are aware.
With that, I'm 100% supportive (as it is a federal issue, thus my voice counts) of this "hunt" conducted by either or both - if it feeds families in need. Where hunters are able to hunt and proceeds of "x" %+ go to families in need and processing paid by the hunter as part of the fee to hunt Isle Royale.
I'm also not opposed to hunters paying a good fee for a "trophy" type Hunt for overpopulation where they gain the hunt experience and keep the cape/paddles, etc and the meat is at least 50%+ provided to Americans in need and the fees cover the butchering to further reduce cost associated for this in need.
Thoughts on an internet forum and my comments were sent to:
Isle Royale National Park
800 East Lakeshore Drive
Houghton, Michigan 49931-1896
"Contact us" via internal NPS email for Isle Royale w/ CC'd info shared and sent to the following @
Suggestions for other means to share opinions / ideas that might reach people in a position to consider? You are a guru for this type of activity.
Charles, if the enabling act for Isle Royale disallows hunting, there is nothing the NPS or a resolution from the Michigan Legislature can do to change that. You have to amend the enabling act to allow for hunting. Otherwise this resolution is just pissing in the wind.
brian flatlander
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2020
- Messages
- 187
From what i have read on the subject is that the lake would freeze for a few months and that would allow for travel back and forth. Now they are blaming no ice bridge on global- warming[not going there]. One of the first wolves they released took advantage of temporary ice bridge and got out. I believe another was killed by pack already there. Starting to look like another failed gov't experiment.
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