Hoosiers: Fenced hunting for Indiana?

dgibson

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We've debated this topic endlessly here in the past, so I'll leave that alone and just say that Hoosiers will soon have a chance to voice their opinions on the subject. Via email from the IN DNR:
Fenced deer hunting meetings
--------------------------------------
Public forums span the state during June


The Department of Natural Resources will conduct five public fenced deer
hunting meetings during June.

"Hunting deer behind fences in Indiana is a topic that has been debated and
discussed for a number of years," said DNR Director Kyle Hupfer. "It is time
the DNR took a more assertive role and a decision is made once and for all
whether fenced hunting is something that Hoosiers want in their state, and
if allowed, what rules will govern such hunting."

DNR public fenced deer meetings:
--------------------------------
(Times listed are local times)

-June 7, Kankakee FWA, 6 p.m.-8 p.m.(Starke County)

-June 14, Salamonie Lake, 6 p.m.-8 p.m.(Huntington County)

-June 16, Clifty Falls State Park, 6 p.m.-8 p.m.(Jefferson County)

-June 23, Sugar Ridge FWA, 6 p.m.-8 p.m.(Pike County)

-June 30, Fort Harrison State Parts, The Garrison, 6 p.m.-8 p.m.(Marion
County)

"These forums will provide the type of open discussion of issues that
Governor Daniels pledged would be standard operating procedure during his
time in office," said Hupfer. "I look forward to hearing from as many people
as possible so that a complete view of public opinion on this issue will be
available before final decisions are made."

The Citizens Advisory Council on Captive Cervids, an advisory group created
by the DNR two years ago, held a series of meetings on fenced deer hunting
rules between August 2003 and April 2004. The council was unable to reach
consensus and no rules were created as a result of the council's efforts.

This year the Indiana General Assembly briefly visited the issue of fenced
hunting but left it to the DNR to examine the state's options to regulate
the practice through rule rather than a change in statute.

The DNR has put together 19 talking points that will serve as starting
points for discussions about proposed captive deer hunt regulations. The 19
points are based on the captive cervid council work and laws and regulations
from other states.

Fenced deer hunting talking points:
-----------------------------------

- Threshold issue: Should fenced deer hunting be allowed in Indiana? If the
ultimate answer is yes, then rules regarding the approved conduct of fenced
deer hunting must be established. The remaining talking points provide a
starting point for such rules in the event that a complete prohibition is
not the outcome of this process.

- Minimum size of facility: 300 acres.

- Existing facilities & sunset date: Existing facilities must show proof of
hunting on property in 2003 &/or 2004. Existing facilities must have a
minimum of 50 acres to allow hunting in the 2005 season. These facilities
must comply with the 300-acre requirement by hunting season 2006. No new
permits will be issued for fenced deer hunting locations. These rules would
sunset as of February 1, 2015, at which time there would be a complete
prohibition on the hunting of deer behind fences in Indiana.

- Fence height: Single 10-foot fence for white-tailed deer or double 8-foot
fence. Single 8-foot fence for other cervids.

- Escape cover: Forty percent minimum cover.

- Artificial feeding: Must remove food 10 days before hunting can take
place.

- Stand location from perimeter fence: minimum of 75 yards.

- New animal release: Must release new cervid at least 10 days before
hunting occurs. It is permissible for new cervid to be released throughout
the season, but operators must allow for the 10-day "cooling off" period
before additional hunting takes place.

- Hunter density: one hunter per 20 acres per day.

- Season: Oct. 1 - Jan. 1 (consistent with military base hunts). Would allow
any method of taking that is legal in Indiana during entire season.

- Deer density/acre: one deer per acre

- Bag limits: none

- Required license (hunter): Shooting preserve license for each deer to be
harvested ($250/buck, $50/doe), plus required Indiana hunting licenses (deer
must be checked & tagged on site, before leaving the property--and all BOAH
rules and regulations followed)

- Required license (shooting preserve): DNR-issued Game Breeder's License,
current cost $15. Application would be altered to require applicant to
declare if s/he is a "Cervidae Livestock Operation" or a "Shooting
Preserve." In order to check shooting preserve, proof of prior hunting will
be required. All shooting preserves already holding a Game Breeder's License
will be required to re-submit a Shooting Preserve request and receive a
Shooting Preserve permit prior to conducting hunts in the 2005 season.

- Hunting fees & DNR fees: Individual animals cannot be sold. Facility
operators may charge fees at their discretion (For example, a base fee for
all cervid, or a fee scale based on antler size). Thirty percent of all
fees paid by hunters to a Shooting Preserve are to be paid to the DNR for
program implementation and as an additional fee for receiving a Shooting
Preserve permit.

- Cervid identification: Ear tag (unique and visible from a distance) &
implanted radio frequency ID device. Cervid must be identified according to
BOAH regulations (345 IAC 2-7).

- Post-harvest antler marking: 1/4-inch hole drilled into an antler prior to
leaving the property.

- CWD testing: CWD testing will continue according to BOAH regulations (345
IAC 2-7).

- Accounting/auditing: The DNR or any of its agents may, at any time, audit
a shooting preserve operator's records to confirm compliance with required
fee payment to DNR.

"The parameters we are using as a starting point will not necessarily be the
final rules," Hupfer said. "They are intended only as a mechanism to produce
meaningful dialogue on the topic."

More fenced deer hunt information and email box for fenced deer parameters
comments:
http://www.IN.gov/dnr/fencedhunting/

Citizens Advisory Council on Captive Cervids final report:
http://www.IN.gov/dnr/cervidcouncil/
 
Why are they wasting their time? Why not outlaw FENCED DEER??? |oo

That is what need to be to outlawed. Once they are fenced in, who cares how they are killed? Just don't call it hunting. :rolleyes:
 
The whitetails can do well there, I would think, they don't migrate, its pretty crowded in some places there. The fence will make a clean management border.

They want to consider its benefits, it sounds like, and set it up well, with all concerned. They put together a good group there to work on doing it well, it looks like. It doesn't sound like they think it needs to be outlawed, it sounds like they are more concerned with doing it well. They have double 8 ft fences or a single 10 foot fence in the proposals now. I'm betting they'll think double 8 foot is better, its more likely to prevent disease coming into the property or going out of the property, maybe. A property in nearby Michigan solved some issues that way. But is it necessary? There are states with the double fence and states without it, so there may be data to support the double or single approach as better, I don't know. Double fence does not seem necessary at all to make it work down here, neither does 10 ft height.
 
they don't migrate
I guess they don't make epic journeys as a rule, but they do move around over time. I'm sure that poor feeding conditions would hasten that. They certainly move in more than a 300-acre circle, depending on conditions.

Isn't that one of the big complaints regarding mule deer habitat...that the "white tailed rat deer" are crowding them out of their traditional ranges? By your logic the whitetails are going to stay put anyway, so the fences wouldn't make a big difference. I don't get it. :confused:
 
I hope this doesn't go forward, but I'm guessing it will. Lack of public land and lots of hunters have folks looking for the easy way out. And to think, my wife was trying to talk me into moving back...:(
 
I say go for it... that way Indiana will get CWD, no sence in some states not having it!

What it boils down to IMO is that people are so stuck on killing a monster buck or just any buck, that they are willing to fence one in to make it that much easier for them to kill, and if justifying it by saying that its good for management makes them feel like more of a hunter then by all means... Be a real hunter and hunt there...
 
The 300 is arbitrary, but that Iowa whitetail B&C world record stayed on the 300 acre place in Iowa where he was hunted hard for the last 3 years of his life.

1 deer/acre, I wonder how they came up with that figure? I guess they think they'll have a big market? Or, else, people there already have that, feed the hell out of them, and don't want to cut back?

It doesn't follow that they will get CWD, the double fence may be the way to help prevent it from getting in there area. You can have a fence right next to a road, it protects the road use and the deer, that's good for people and deer.

Did mule deer used to be in Indiana and Kaintuckee, dgibson? It looks like they are going to end the hunting from this, so what are they for, raising deer?

"These rules would
sunset as of February 1, 2015, at which time there would be a complete
prohibition on the hunting of deer behind fences in Indiana."
 
Tom,

CWD is rampant in the game farm animals that are bought and sold. Since the only way to test to date is to kill the animal first, it's kind of hard to prove that the animals you purchase are CWD free. The double fence is to protect the wild deer outside the fence from nose to nose contact and escape from fence #1, not the other way around. Double fences should be manditory for game farms, if they are allowed at all.

CWD and game farms go hand in hand. Not something I would want to take a chance on.
 
BHR,

If a guy buys a bunch of deer that are CWD free/disease free from a lot of diseases, from a heard that has been for years, he doesn't want the wild deer to infect his deer with anything. The fence protects the deer inside, it stops them from getting run over on streets, from being poached so easily, from outside disease exposure, from outside invasion of their good habitat inside. Its more to protect the deer inside than it is to protect those outside, lots of people call them and outclosure down here, not an inclosure like some think.

I don't think you should take a chance on CWD either, good idea.
 
Tom, no, there never were mule deer in IN or KY. ;) But there weren't always as many whitetails out west, either...how'd they get there?

As I understand it, the sunset date is intended just like any other similar legislative sunset: it gives the DNR & the state an "out" if things go badly. If these rules are enacted but aren't renewed before 2/1/2015, then fenced hunting ceases to exist. It follows that, if sufficient interest isn't there by 2015, why continue it? At any rate, they're all "talking points" right now...there's not even any legislation on the table.

I thought the implanted radio ID requirement was interesting...is that common in game farms these days? Sounds expensive.
 
I don't know about radio implants, I've just heard a few comments. It does sound expensive, but the deer are thousands of dollars each for some of these places. If they had a big breeder, I guess it would be worth the cost to some of the places to put in those radio implants. It might be worth it to the outside people to know they could find a run away, in case it was diseased, too. Pretty amazing stuff, high tech deer tracking.

So, you're thinking maybe the whitetail in the west are pushing the mule deer out, i.e. out competing them? I don't know that, either. I know west Texas mule deer are moving east some. I've hunted places over the last 10 years where they even crossbreed, they say, and it looks that way too, looking at some of them.
 
Yeah, I've read a couple of theories on that. Some say that the mule deer move out because of development and so forth and the whitetails move in because they're better able to adapt to fragmented habitat. But I've also seen some people who seem to believe that the muleys move out because of active, direct encroachment of territory by whitetails. Maybe 1_pointer has some sagacious knowledge on the subject....
 
Tom,

Where on earth did you ever get the idea that Whitetails don't migrate??? Maybe they won't migrate if they have some Texan's high fence, but Whitetails are great migrators.

A few years back, the UofIdaho did a study on Whitetail migration in the Clearwater drainages. The leading cause of the start of migration was 5cm of snow, which would then begin a 70+ mile migration to the Camas Prairie.
 
I saw 3 whitetails a couple weeks ago bear hunting in a place I would have never thought whitetails would be. Their habitat is definately expanding in the west.
 
I guess migration has to do with the snow and the mountains then, did they say that? The whitetail studies here have them living their whole life within a square mile, if there's food, cover, and water there. West Texas, they'll move farther, but they don't migrate around here, they just travel a little farther for food, water, and cover.
 
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