Help me trick out a Remington Ultimate 700 muzzleloader

[LopeHunter]

I am reluctant to ever change guns but am switching to the Remington Ultimate. I last had a muzzleloader tag about a decade ago so. Drew an elk tag this year that is restricted to muzzleloader.

I will be hunting in a state that allows optics, synthetic powder and sabots.

What would you add to the base Ultimate model with the synthetic stock? Assume no budget concerns as I gather up mounts, scope, ramrod, tripod, recoil pad, sling, etc. Not sure if possible, but a rail or base/ring system that was easy to remove would be nifty so could easily switch over to use peep sights in states that do not allow optics.

What powder type and load and sabot?

Are some videos on YouTube and some in-depth reviews though know there is a lot of real world experience here.

 

[Mudranger1]

I Have no idea how to trick out your new muzzleloader. hell I didn't even know what it was but when I looked it says it has revolutionized it to shoot 300 yards. hell my Thompson Omega has been able to do that for the 15+ years I've owned it. throw a scope on it and find a bullet combo it likes. that will be the hardest part

 

[VAspeedgoat]

I like the idea of quick tatch mounts. That's about all I'd do. If using black powder use buckhorn 209. I prefer Barnes sabots and bullets. That's pretty much it unless you convert it to Smokeless powder. I'm not sure if that requires a barrel change or not. If not a Smokeless breach plug wouldn't be too expensive from Arrowhead.

Good luck.

 

[cahunter805]

Get the arrowhead breech plug kit and shoot BH209. Weigh your charges on a scale and fine tune for your gun.
Also I’d tune or upgrade the trigger. Trigger tech is what I’d buy if you upgrade.

 

[klampson]

I had Phoenix Custom Rifles in Tempe AZ trick out my Rem 700 Ultimate. They did an awesome job, and I would highly recommend them!

They replaced the rather heavy factory stock with a McMillan HTG with edge fill (which required additional inletting and fitting to accommodate the ram rod), glass bed the action, upgraded the trigger with a Jewell, and Cerakoted the metal matt black. I normally have a Leupold VX-5 HD 3-15x44 mounted on it with a Warne 1-peice Mountain Tech picatinny base and matching rings. I took the scope off recently to see how it groups with open sights. Its a very fun and accurate rifle to shoot!

I have other muzzleloaders as well, but I really like Remington 700s, so purchasing an Ultimate was a no brainer.....

 

[LopeHunter]

I had Phoenix Custom Rifles in Tempe AZ trick out my Rem 700 Ultimate. They did an awesome job, and I would highly recommend them!

They replaced the rather heavy factory stock with a McMillan HTG with edge fill (which required additional inletting and fitting to accommodate the ram rod), glass bed the action, upgraded the trigger with a Jewell, and Cerakoted the metal matt black. I normally have a Leupold VX-5 HD 3-15x44 mounted on it with a Warne 1-peice Mountain Tech picatinny base and matching rings. I took the scope off recently to see how it groups with open sights. Its a very fun and accurate rifle to shoot!

I have other muzzleloaders as well, but I really like Remington 700s, so purchasing an Ultimate was a no brainer.....

View attachment 106090

Thanks for the information. I travel to Phoenix quite often so this is handy info. I am taking the Omega out later this month to see what is does. I have not shot a muzzie in several years but used to be decent out to 150 yards smacking paper so I set 100 yards as my limit for critters with the Omega and sabots and Buckhorn 209. I have to look at my notes in my hunt diary to see the load and bullet was using back then. Again, thanks for the info as I am likely adding another gun to the safe this summer.

 

[AggieOutlaw]

Where do I begin?

Are you 100% sure you want a 700 UML? I have had a helluva time getting mine to shoot. I drew a OIL elk tag in NM and decided to upgrade my $250 CVA Optima V2. I bought the laminate stock option which came with open sights. I swapped them out for a Leupold VX2 Ultimate Slam 3-9 scope. I thought I was pretty much set.

First trip to the range, the thing wouldn't group. I mean: Would. NOT. Group. 25 yards off a lead sled...6" group. 100 yds not on paper. Literally shooting all over the place. I had other shooters try with the same results. The thing was damn near impossible to load, the bore was so tight. One of the primers even blew out. It was a disaster.

I was ready to return to Remington. But I was afraid I wouldn't get it back in time for my hunt so I took the entire thing apart, including the breech plug. I cleaned the hell outta it and reassembled. I almost forgot to mention, the firing pin and spring was very VERY rusty. Brand new gun...how?

I went back to the range and had much better results. 2-3" groups at 100 using my standard 3 pellets and 250 gr Hornady SST. But my CVA shot better. The trigger was heavy so I decided to get a Timney...that'll fix it

I spent a fortune and a crazy amount of time developing a load. I tried 777, IMR white hots, BH209 measured to the 0.1 grain. I tried a 5-6 different projectiles. None of them grouped worth a damn. Finally, the week before the hunt, I found a load that worked using a Barnes 290 gr copper in front of 150 gr of 777. It shot an inch at 100 and I settled.

I managed to harvest an elk, so mission accomplished.

Last year, I drew a Coues ML hunt. I tried like hell to develop a 300 yard load for the gun. It just couldn't be done. I settled back on my Barnes bullet and limited myself to 150 yards or so. CVA range.

During the hunt, day one, my swivel stub pulled out of the laminate stock. I was stuck. I had some super glue in my First Aid kit and used it to try to salvage the sling stud...alas no luck. I now carry epoxy in my truck. Lesson Learned. I had to carry the 11 lbs UML around the hills of the border country for 4 more days. The stock is super slippery and nearly impossible to hold. It was incredibly frustrating.

I've since replaced the stock with an HS Precision aluminum bedded stock...hoping it will make it more accurate. But I've given up on my expectations of the gun. I've considered selling it many times and just using my CVA.

I've got a ML elk hunt this year. I haven't decided which ML to bring.

I'm not trying to deter you but I wanted to let you know the horror story of my experience with the 700. If I could do it again, I wouldn't buy it. I have two friends who love theirs, and I purchased one after seeing how accurate their's are. Mine is a lemon. And I've heard similar stories from others online.

As far as tricking it out? I really do like the Timney trigger. The HS Precision stock was a nice addition and it was milled out for the ramrod. I would go with a McMillan or HS or some other synthetic, and avoid the factory laminate stock. A good scope should help. And a guy at my local range had a muzzlebrake installed (craziest thing I've ever seen).

Other than that, what can you really do?

Good luck with your decision! Happy to answer any questions you may have.

 

[klampson]

Yes, it sure sounds like you got a "lemon" AggieOutlaw. Your experience sounds more than frustrating, and I wouldn't be too happy either.....!

 

[MikeMaland]

I put the Leupold 4-12 VXR fire dot with
4.16” of eye relief on mine. I tried using 200 grains of 777 with the supplied sabots and it was all over the place. Tried 777 mag (180 grains) with same bullets and and it shot 1” groups out of a sled.

 

[Scott85]

It's a shame they don't make these things left handed.

 

[PrairieHunter]

Get the arrowhead breech plug kit and shoot BH209. Weigh your charges on a scale and fine tune for your gun.
Also I’d tune or upgrade the trigger. Trigger tech is what I’d buy if you upgrade.

What would be the advantage of BH209 over the smokeless it was designed to use?

 

[AggieOutlaw]

What would be the advantage of BH209 over the smokeless it was designed to use?

Whoa. The UML is not designed for smokeless. Don’t believe anyone who tells you otherwise unless that person works for Remington.

There was a good Facebook page dedicated to the UML. They helped me unf*** mine. They posted a letter or email from Remington which suggested that BH209 wasn’t intended to be used in the UML. After that, I went back to 777 pellets which is all that the letter or email (which appeared to be authentic) said to use. They happened to be as if not more accurate anyway. And a lot more convenient.

But there is a big difference between smokeless and black powder. Do not use smokeless in a ML.

and I don’t know anything about this modified breech plug. Perhaps it is designed to accommodate BH209.

Edit

I went back to read the postings more carefully. It seems this breech plug may be intended for smokeless. I would be very very cautious. The plug may be able to withstand the pressures but what about the barrel? This seems incredibly risky and I wouldn’t do it without a competent smith looking it over thoroughly and certifying (maybe even proof testing) it. It’s just not worth it. And for god sake, MLing is supposed to be harder and less lethal than rifle hunting. I already feel guilty enough shooting 150 gr loads out of a 700 action. Feels like cheating. Just my 2¢

 

[cahunter805]

What would be the advantage of BH209 over the smokeless it was designed to use?

The UML isn’t a smokeless muzzleloader. The factory breech plug is not a very good design and doesn’t seal very well. Headspace is also very inconsistent from the factory.
The arrowhead kit from Luke is a major upgrade over the factory setup.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

The only differences between smokeless and not is the design of the breech and the barrel is a grade capable of handling the pressure. As I understand, the Remington has a capable barrel but not the breech. Hence the upgrade.

 

[PrairieHunter]

The UML isn’t a smokeless muzzleloader. The factory breech plug is not a very good design and doesn’t seal very well. Headspace is also very inconsistent from the factory.
The arrowhead kit from Luke is a major upgrade over the factory setup.

Ahh. I thought this was the smokeless remington. My bad.

It's amazing how many poorly designed breech plugs there are out there when dealing with BH209. I had to heavily modify my CVA breech plug to work as it was the early model before they offered the new special plug for BH209.

 

[completesportsman]

if money is no object and you want the best muzzleloader look at this facebook page and scroll down to the November 11 post with the muzzleloader this gunsmith in North Carolina built, thats what i would get....

Apache Machine & Custom, LLC | North Wilkesboro NC

Apache Machine & Custom, LLC, North Wilkesboro. 4,347 likes · 2 talking about this · 3 were here. Precision built rifles and long-range pistols for competition and hunting since 2007.

www.facebook.com

 

[AggieOutlaw]

Where do I begin?

Are you 100% sure you want a 700 UML? I have had a helluva time getting mine to shoot. I drew a OIL elk tag in NM and decided to upgrade my $250 CVA Optima V2. I bought the laminate stock option which came with open sights. I swapped them out for a Leupold VX2 Ultimate Slam 3-9 scope. I thought I was pretty much set.

First trip to the range, the thing wouldn't group. I mean: Would. NOT. Group. 25 yards off a lead sled...6" group. 100 yds not on paper. Literally shooting all over the place. I had other shooters try with the same results. The thing was damn near impossible to load, the bore was so tight. One of the primers even blew out. It was a disaster.

I was ready to return to Remington. But I was afraid I wouldn't get it back in time for my hunt so I took the entire thing apart, including the breech plug. I cleaned the hell outta it and reassembled. I almost forgot to mention, the firing pin and spring was very VERY rusty. Brand new gun...how?

I went back to the range and had much better results. 2-3" groups at 100 using my standard 3 pellets and 250 gr Hornady SST. But my CVA shot better. The trigger was heavy so I decided to get a Timney...that'll fix it

I spent a fortune and a crazy amount of time developing a load. I tried 777, IMR white hots, BH209 measured to the 0.1 grain. I tried a 5-6 different projectiles. None of them grouped worth a damn. Finally, the week before the hunt, I found a load that worked using a Barnes 290 gr copper in front of 150 gr of 777. It shot an inch at 100 and I settled.

I managed to harvest an elk, so mission accomplished.

Last year, I drew a Coues ML hunt. I tried like hell to develop a 300 yard load for the gun. It just couldn't be done. I settled back on my Barnes bullet and limited myself to 150 yards or so. CVA range.

During the hunt, day one, my swivel stub pulled out of the laminate stock. I was stuck. I had some super glue in my First Aid kit and used it to try to salvage the sling stud...alas no luck. I now carry epoxy in my truck. Lesson Learned. I had to carry the 11 lbs UML around the hills of the border country for 4 more days. The stock is super slippery and nearly impossible to hold. It was incredibly frustrating.

I've since replaced the stock with an HS Precision aluminum bedded stock...hoping it will make it more accurate. But I've given up on my expectations of the gun. I've considered selling it many times and just using my CVA.

I've got a ML elk hunt this year. I haven't decided which ML to bring.

I'm not trying to deter you but I wanted to let you know the horror story of my experience with the 700. If I could do it again, I wouldn't buy it. I have two friends who love theirs, and I purchased one after seeing how accurate their's are. Mine is a lemon. And I've heard similar stories from others online.

As far as tricking it out? I really do like the Timney trigger. The HS Precision stock was a nice addition and it was milled out for the ramrod. I would go with a McMillan or HS or some other synthetic, and avoid the factory laminate stock. A good scope should help. And a guy at my local range had a muzzlebrake installed (craziest thing I've ever seen).

Other than that, what can you really do?

Good luck with your decision! Happy to answer any questions you may have.

Well, I just got back from the range with a new HS Precision stock and it made a huge difference. I shot a .6 MOA group which isn't bad for a .45 MOA projectile. So, I guess the gun can shoot!

 

[lbirch]

I got rid of the bulky boxy composite
stock and bedded it in a Mesa Precision Arms Altitude Carbon fiber stock. I carry a 3 piece collapsible ramrod and kept the stock one as a range rod. I put a Vortex Razor HDLH on it with Talley one piece lite weight mounts. It lightened up a ton. I had the gunsmith install a sabot muzzle brake from Harrell’s Precision but it still punches. I use the Parker 300 gr match hunter bullet with the Remington sabot. Its 2385 fps at the muzzle, 1605 fps at 500 yards with 1716 ft-lbs of energy. It’s under moa at 500 yards.

Smokeless powder cannot be used in a stock Remington UML. The stock breech plug can’t handle it and the barrel won’t hold up to the pressure. A stock UML isn’t even supposed to be used with Blackhorn 209, read the o&m manual, it will eventually fail like mentioned in an earlier post. Google it.

Arrowhead Sporting Goods LLC has a replacement breechplug that can be installed allowing the use of Blackhorn 209 repeatedly without failure. This breech plug replacement does not give the UML the ability to use smokeless powder however. The barrel must be replaced. Arrowhead can help with that.

Arrowhead can convert the Remington UML to shoot smokeless powder using a Brux or equivalent 45 caliber barrel. These shoot sabot-less bullets that are sized through a press to fit perfectly in the barrel. They sell the dies too. For example, The Parker 45 caliber match hunter would be “smooth” sized through the die to fit the barrel. Not too tight, not too loose. It’s not an exact science.

Checking state regulations is important because many states in the west don’t allow smokeless powder in a muzzleloader.

 

[Ohio Josh]

I have had no issue with BH 209 in mine. Shoots great, 130 grains volume with Federal Bor Loc. I think the problems with Black Horn 209 have been exaggerated.

 

[LopeHunter]

Update. The 700 was backordered as shopped online so I went ahead hunting with my Omega 50 caliber. On the NV hunt was one shot under 40 yards without a scope and the NM hunt was one shot under 50 yards with a scope so all is well that ends well.