Helicopter Landing in the Bob Marshall Wilderness

[Deleted member 20812]

Could have been a flying saucer too. Could have been a Black Hawk. Except it wasn't. We are dealing with a fact, not supposition. And you know, rifles are regularly seized for hunting violations in Montana, so repurposing the helo seems like a great idea.

Montana doesn’t have a civil forfeiture law. Rifles are seized as evidence, and can only be forfeited to the state by a court order as part of sentencing.

 

[longbow51]

Montana doesn’t have a civil forfeiture law. Rifles are seized as evidence, and can only be forfeited to the state by a court order as part of sentencing.

State Forfeiture Laws
Despite positive reform in 2015, Montana’s civil forfeiture laws earn a D- due to the hefty profit incentive they create for law enforcement agencies to seize property. Montana law now requires a criminal conviction to forfeit property. Then, the government must prove the property is tied to that crime in civil court by clear and convincing evidence. Further, the 2015 reform shifted the innocent owner burden to the government. Innocent owners no longer have to prove their own innocence to win their property back. However, Montana’s law grade takes a major hit because of the substantial incentive given to law enforcement to seize. Local law enforcement retains up to 100 percent of forfeiture proceeds. State law enforcement agencies also retain up to 100 percent of proceeds, but when the value of property seized and forfeited exceeds $125,000, any excess proceeds must be divided equally between a state forfeiture fund and the state general fund.

Whether or not landing a helicopter is a crime that fits the rules I don't know. But we absolutely have civil forfeiture. They have auctions all the time.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

State Forfeiture Laws
Despite positive reform in 2015, Montana’s civil forfeiture laws earn a D- due to the hefty profit incentive they create for law enforcement agencies to seize property. Montana law now requires a criminal conviction to forfeit property. Then, the government must prove the property is tied to that crime in civil court by clear and convincing evidence. Further, the 2015 reform shifted the innocent owner burden to the government. Innocent owners no longer have to prove their own innocence to win their property back. However, Montana’s law grade takes a major hit because of the substantial incentive given to law enforcement to seize. Local law enforcement retains up to 100 percent of forfeiture proceeds. State law enforcement agencies also retain up to 100 percent of proceeds, but when the value of property seized and forfeited exceeds $125,000, any excess proceeds must be divided equally between a state forfeiture fund and the state general fund.

Whether or not landing a helicopter is a crime that fits the rules I don't know. But we absolutely have civil forfeiture. They have auctions all the time.

You are correct in that there is civil forfeiture for drug related crimes. There is not civil forfeiture for hunting related violations.

The helicopter is a federal violation, not a state violation.

 

[44hunter45]

Could have been a flying saucer too. Could have been a Black Hawk. Except it wasn't. We are dealing with a fact, not supposition. And you know, rifles are regularly seized for hunting violations in Montana, so repurposing the helo seems like a great idea.

What?

My post has nothing to do with the details of the case. It refers to the number of posts saying that the perpetrators are elitist, rich liberals. Wouldn't you say that it is supposition to assume their politics? My point being that the political persuasions of the man and his wife are not relevant to what happened. (We are, after all, dealing with a fact, not supposition.) Even if we knew for a fact they were card carrying DNC members, this kind of snobbery is not limited to liberals. All it takes is money and a disregard for the law.

Look up the case: "US vs One Bell Jet Ranger II" from 1991. The defendants were acquitted in the earlier criminal case. The Feds then tried for forfeiture in this case and failed.
The hunter in this case ended up in court again later in an Arizona and was convicted of AHA violations hunting mule deer.

United States of America, Plaintiff-appellant, v. One Bell Jet Ranger Ii Helicopter, Identification No. N8190j(registered to Sam Jaksick, 1013 Lakeshore Drive,indian Village, Nevada), Defendant,andgreat Western Helicopters, Inc., Claimant-appellee, 9

United States of America, Plaintiff-appellant, v. One Bell Jet Ranger Ii Helicopter, Identification No. N8190j(registered to Sam Jaksick, 1013 Lakeshore Drive,indian Village, Nevada), Defendant,andgreat Western Helicopters, Inc., Claimant-appellee, 943 F.2d 1121 (9th Cir. 1991) case opinion from...

law.justia.com

 

[longbow51]

Not bearing a "Trump 2020" sticker nor a "God Bless Texas". I didn't mention a word about politics.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Thought some of you might be interested in this ongoing investigation.

Initial story: https://hungryhorsenews.com/news/2020/may/28/forest-service-investigating-helicopter-10/

And follow-up: https://www.bozemandailychronicle.c...cle_7c8a6dc1-d98d-5dae-9c85-84fca09ef6ef.html

“We briefly stopped ... in a location we believed to be outside the wilderness boundary. We made a mistake understanding our surroundings and we sincerely apologize.”

If it isn't clear in the articles, they were about 10 miles inside the wilderness. Just doin' a little early season fishing...

Just a little pre season scouting.....oops, my bad.