Gun raid in CA

Muskeez

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See NBC news story. Evidently the guy loaned or sold an "assault weapon" to someone. So they raid his house and lay all his guns out on the street. Maybe he's a bad azz dude and up to no good but it looks to me like the media is making a common gun collector into a terrorist over very little. Not to mention many of those guns are now dinged up after being put into a pile like that! I know CA has more strict gun laws that other parts of the country, but wow, they went crazy on this one. So many people think that if you own a lot of guns that you can shoot them all at the same time and destroy the human race.
 

Mtnhunter1

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My SIL sent this out on FB last night. There are additional photos and videos out there on the net. Viewing all, I could not make out more than a few "assault" style rifles. I could make out hundreds of hunting rifles and revolver pistols. Plus photos of a pile of standard hunting and plink'n ammo! I assume that there is a whole lot more to the story than is available at this time but California has quickly become a "Take your gun rights away" state.
 

wllm1313

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I saw that story briefly as I left the house this morning... few thoughts were kicking around on the commute in...

1. Agree with OP probably every person on this forum could be made to look like some sort of crazy by the media... I mean we all probably have 4+ guns and 500+ rounds of ammo at home

2. Job well done? Like I said cursory glance at the story, but straw buying is a huge problem and if this guy was acting as a fence/straw buyer/illegal distributor then he definitely deserves to go to jail.
Experiences coloring my comments:
- I have seen straw buys go down at big boxes stores... it's kinda scary how little bass pro/cabelas/gander mountain/ etc seem to care about them
- My BIL was robbed and had guns stolen from his house... I figured they ended up in a place like that...

3. Also there was another school shooting in CO, my cousins live in that neighborhood. I think like a lot of people I'm a little unsure what an actual solution is... as a sportsman/gun owner I certainly feel a bit pissed about the fact that our current gun laws are rarely enforced... see straw buying comment above and I wish as part of their defense of the 2A orgs like the NRA would actually lobby for better enforcement (not the BS lip-service you occasionally hear). I think if you make the personal freedom/libertarian/responsibility argument towards guns then you also need to own the consequences of ownership... meaning if a minor in your house uses your firearm to commit a crime you get hammered. I think the parents of a school shooter absolutely deserve to get hit with accessory to murder, not sure if that's the correct charge... vikingsguy or one of our other legal experts can jump in and correct me.

Like I said... just some thoughts as always open to listening to counter arguments or positions
 
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beginnerhunter

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I saw that story briefly as I left the house this morning... few thoughts were kicking around on the commute in...

1. Agree with OP probably every person on this forum could be made to look like some sort of crazy by the media... I mean we all probably have 4+ guns and 500+ rounds of ammo at home

2. Job well done? Like I said cursory glass at the story, but straw buying is a huge problem and if this guy was acting as a fence/straw buyer/illegal distributor then he definitely deserves to go to jail.
Experiences coloring my comments:
- I have seen straw buys go down at big boxes stores... it's kinda scary how little bass pro/cabelas/gander mountain/ etc seem to care about them
- My BIL was robbed and had guns stolen from his house... I figured they ended up in a place like that...

3. Also there was another school shooting in CO, my cousins live in that neighborhood. I think like a lot of people I'm a little unsure what an actual solution is... as a sportsman/gun owner I certainly feel a bit pissed about the fact that our current gun laws are rarely enforced... see straw buying comment above and I wish as part of their defense of the 2A orgs like the NRA would actually lobby for better enforcement (not the BS lip-service you occasionally hear). I think if you make the personal freedom/libertarian/responsibility argument towards guns then you also need to own the consequences of ownership... meaning if a minor in your house uses your firearm to commit a crime you get hammered. I think the parents of a school shooter absolutely deserve to get hit with accessory to murder, not sure if that's the correct charge... vikingsguy or one of our other legal experts can jump and correct me.

Like I said... just some thoughts as always open to listening to counter arguments or positions
Without knowing the whole story, can CA really do anything to somebody for "owning a bunch of guns"? Other than damaging them in a raid, which isn't insignificant.

As far as children and guns, my plan is keep them in a safe where only I or my wife know the code until they are of age to legally acquire them (unless there are other reasons to restrict their access). The only question I have is allowing them to use guns unsupervised as teenagers. I went hunting with my friends all the time in high school and I would like for my kids to be able to experience the same. However, that was the 90s when we had more freedom and risk was accepted better than it is now. Maybe it will have to be a judgement call or maybe they'll just have to always bring me along. My dad was never really that into hunting.
 

wllm1313

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The only question I have is allowing them to use guns unsupervised as teenagers. I went hunting with my friends all the time in high school and I would like for my kids to be able to experience the same.
Wife and I are in the family planning stage... and this is definitely something I have thought about. I didn't grow up with guns, in fact I handle any firearm other than a bb gun until I was in my 20s, my wife on the other hand was bombing around on her ranch at 10 on a 4 wheeler with her own rifle. For whatever reason I think I feel more comfortable letting a teenager use a long gun unsupervised than a handgun. I think when we are at my wife ranch I will let the kids go off on there own... but if we live in a urban/suburban area at that point I don't think I will let my 16 year old hop in the truck, drive up to the mts, and hunt solo... I dk I'm sure my opinions will evolve with time.
 

wllm1313

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Yes, Yes it will!

Don't agree will the parents getting charged stance but I could be way off base here.

I also never even thought about the "straw buyer" theory! Might be a way of financing a life in this neighborhood?

Apparently the home was the owned by the "second family"... yes creepy second family... of Gordan Getty. Yep those Getty's... the one the movie was made about.
 

JLS

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Yes, Yes it will!

Don't agree will the parents getting charged stance but I could be way off base here.

I also never even thought about the "straw buyer" theory! Might be a way of financing a life in this neighborhood?
I disagree with parents being charged as well, unless there is demonstrable gross negligence. People who have not yet raised teenagers tend to overestimate how much parental control really exists.

If a kid wants to go off the rails and run away, your options are limited. If they go out and do great harm, how is a parent supposed to prevent that in all cases?

It’s an awful feeling when you know deep down you are pretty powerless to prevent teenage self destruction. You can prevent access to the means within your home, but you can’t prevent the actions short of confinement.
 

wllm1313

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Demonstrable gross negligence.
This was more what was in my mind... min age to buy a long gun 18, hand gun 21... i.e. all guns in your house are yours and therefore the onus in on you to prevent unauthorized access to minors. So if your kid goes into your dresser and grabs your .45 that's on you, if he/she gets a gun from a friend, breaks into your safe with a crow bar, something like that... then you aren't responsible. I'm not thinking you should be responsible for the actions of a sentient being so much as responsible for your firearms.

But yes, I don't have kids... so my understanding of the dynamic is uninformed.
 
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rideold

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This was more what was in my mind... min age to buy a long gun 18, hand gun 21... i.e. all guns in your house are yours and therefore the onus in on you to prevent unauthorized access to minors. So if your kid goes into your dresser and grabs your .45 that's on you, if he/she gets a gun from a friend, breaks into your safe with a crow bar, something like that... then you aren't responsible. I'm not thinking you should be responsible for the actions of a sentient being so much as responsible for your firearms.

But yes, I don't have kids... so my understanding of the dynamic is uninformed.
Not to descend into gun control rhetoric but I don't think you are too off base. The compelling counter argument is a kid that picks up your keys from the table and drives your car into a crowd. There are too many variables for a clear discussion but I'm with you. Can't hurt to make sure kids can't just pick up a fire arm and if you choose to leave a loaded gun on your nightstand and it gets used in a crime then it seems to me that there has to be some culpability.
 

Mountainguide

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I guess my views are way off..... I was raised with guns in the house, ran free with a BB gun at a young age. Anytime I wanted to see or handle a gun, my dad would open up the safe and show me how to handle it properly. Guns were always just a question away and now with my kids I let them shoot BB guns in the yard. And they get the same lectures I got as a kid. If my kids choose not to own firearms that’s fine, but they will know how to handle them and not be afraid of them. And I hope as teenagers they can roam freely with guns such as I did.
 

2ski

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In MT if I over serve someone alcohol at a bar and they get into an accident, I am partially liable. Everyone that serves alcohol in MT is required to take a class every three years that among other things, reminds you of this and that its a crime to sell to a person you know is buying for a minor. When its obvious.Since this has happened, I've noticed bartenders more diligent about make sure hammered people don't continue to get served. Perhaps a similar class should be federally mandated if you sell firearms and for a penalty to exist when you knowingly sell to a straw buyer. Have a class that teaches all of this. Miller/Coors has a program where they go out quarterly to "sting" establishments to make sure they are not selling to minors. Imagine how great the PR would be for the NRA if they offered to do that with guns. You don't have to buy a gun, just make it obvious you are going to be doing a straw buy. If they sale continues, they fail.
 

2ski

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I guess my views are way off..... I was raised with guns in the house, ran free with a BB gun at a young age. Anytime I wanted to see or handle a gun, my dad would open up the safe and show me how to handle it properly. Guns were always just a question away and now with my kids I let them shoot BB guns in the yard. And they get the same lectures I got as a kid. If my kids choose not to own firearms that’s fine, but they will know how to handle them and not be afraid of them. And I hope as teenagers they can roam freely with guns such as I did.
The key phrase you used in your situation here is, "my dad would open up the safe". You didn't have open access to guns without him. So your dad did it right. There's no culpability had you broken into the safe to get it. He didn't let you handle a gun without him knowing you were doing so. So really, your situation is a great example of what to do, and where the thought process of Wllm is.

At some point, we have to say kids shouldn't have unfettered access to guns without mom or dad letting them. If that was the case, how many fewer school shootings would we have? Absolutely we would have some still. But how many would it have stopped? Is it gun control to mandate that we have to have guns locked in safes? Sure, some of these shooters had access to the safe. But how many just knew where the unlocked up guns were kept?
 

RobG

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I thought he was busted for running an unlicensed firearm business and that was his inventory. You have to admit, 1000 guns is a lot even for a prepper.
 

Duck-Slayer

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I guess my views are way off..... I was raised with guns in the house, ran free with a BB gun at a young age. Anytime I wanted to see or handle a gun, my dad would open up the safe and show me how to handle it properly. Guns were always just a question away and now with my kids I let them shoot BB guns in the yard. And they get the same lectures I got as a kid. If my kids choose not to own firearms that’s fine, but they will know how to handle them and not be afraid of them. And I hope as teenagers they can roam freely with guns such as I did.
Exactly! Both my kids have had BB guns since they were six or seven years old. I don’t like any of my guns up, both my young children know what guns are, and what they can do. Sounds like parents need to start doing more parenting lol 😂
Matt
 

Sawtooth

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Exactly! Both my kids have had BB guns since they were six or seven years old. I don’t like any of my guns up, both my young children know what guns are, and what they can do. Sounds like parents need to start doing more parenting lol 😂
Matt
I am guessing that you meant to say "lock" any of my guns up, and if that is the case you might want to reconsider that decision. The teen years can be tough on kids. They are trying to figure out who they are and how they fit into this world. A close friend of mine in high school came home one day to find his shotgun in his younger, dead brothers hands. As expected, this absolutely destroyed this poor family. And by the way, his parents were two of the most loving, involved parents you will ever meet.
Another thing to consider is even if your children are well versed in gun usage, their friends who are visiting the house may not be. Just my two cents on the subject.
 
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Duck-Slayer

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I am guessing that you meant to say "lock" any of my guns up, and if that is the case you might want to reconsider that decision. The teen years can be tough on kids. They are trying to figure out who they are and how they fit into this world. A close friend of mine in high school came home one day to find his shotgun in his younger, dead brothers hands. As expected, this absolutely destroyed this poor family. And by the way, his parents were two of the most loving, involved parents you will ever meet.
Another thing to consider is even if your children are well versed in gun usage, their friends who are visiting the house may not be. Just my cents on the subject.
I’m good.... my kids know just like I knew when I was a kid what happens when you get out of line and go/do things that are not right! Which more parents need to get back to how a lot of us were taught as a young person! Maybe than there won’t be as many problems as there are now! It’s this past generation right behind myself that thinks everyone needs a participation trophy for everything and there’s no Consequences for their actions.... OK done with rant sorry
Matt
 
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