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GOP shoots down Testers Sportsman's package

Khunter

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This from a news service.....hopefully some of it can be retooled and resubmitted.

Senate Republicans last night defeated a bill to promote hunting, angling and conservation on public lands, arguing that it runs afoul of spending limits set in the 2011 Budget Control Act.

The 50-44 procedural vote killed, for now, a package of 17 bills from Republicans and Democrats that enjoys strong support from sportsmen's, conservation and gun advocacy groups. The measure needed 60 votes to advance.

Republicans led by Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said that while S. 3525 would reduce the deficit by $5 million over the next decade -- due to additional revenue from the sale of duck hunting permits -- it would also raise spending by $140 million.

"The fundamentals of this bill are good," Sessions said on the floor last night, adding that he feels the budget violations could be easily fixed if members can find spending reductions elsewhere.

"At a time of unprecedented spending and unsustainable debt, low public confidence in Congress, should we not adhere to even the small spending limits that have been enacted?" he said.

The bill by Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) included measures to conserve wetlands, expand funding for shooting ranges and extend a decade-old law that allows federal agencies to acquire sensitive habitats using revenue from the sales of lower-value federal lands, among other measures.

Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) was the only Democrat to join 43 Republicans in opposing the bill. Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) was the only Republican to break party ranks.

Boxer before the vote said she was concerned with language barring U.S. EPA from regulating lead ammunition and fishing tackle, which she argued could poison wildlife and threaten humans who consume the animals. She said she also opposed language allowing polar bear carcasses to be imported from Canada.

"I believe this bill has many good provisions that will help preserve America's treasured natural resources, protect fish and wildlife and provide recreational opportunities for our families," she said. "Unfortunately, the bill also includes two provisions that threaten public health and could set back wildlife conservation efforts."

It is unclear whether party leaders will come to an agreement on how to fix the budget violations, and if so, when the bill will be brought back up for a vote.

"We'll try to figure out something," Tester said last night after the vote. "We've got to find $140 million basically somewhere in the budget, which isn't a lot, but we've still got to find it. And if we can, then we'll move forward. If we can't, then it will be dead."

Tester said the overall bill would save wildlife habitat and strengthen hunting and angling opportunities on public lands, which are the backbone of an outdoor economy valued at $600 billion annually, he said. Voting to uphold Sessions' point of order is the same as killing the bill, he said.

The senator said he is unsure whether to be optimistic about the bill's final passage. "I'm not near as confident as I was four or five hours ago," Tester said. "We're going to try our best to try to get it across the line."

Vaughn Collins, director of government affairs at the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, said that while bill advocates are tired and frustrated after last night's vote, he is confident Senate leaders will strike a resolution, given the bill's popularity nationwide.

"It sounds like there's an interest and appetite to bring this into compliance with the Budget Control Act, so that it could have an up-or-down vote in the Senate," he said. "We're going to remain hopeful until we see reason to be otherwise."

Collins said there could be a silver lining, too. If a resolution is reached in the coming weeks, the measure could be attached to a larger package to avert the year-end tax hikes and spending cuts known as the fiscal cliff. If that happens, it is highly unlikely the package would be stripped from the bill before it passes the House, he said.

The package is supported by the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, the National Rifle Association, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Ducks Unlimited, the Nature Conservancy and dozens of other organizations.

It is opposed by the Center for Biological Diversity, Friends of the Earth, the Humane Society of the United States, the Center for Food Safety and nearly 200 other groups that lobbied yesterday for its defeat
 
It's these types of bills that tear me apart. The bill does sound great and does a lot of good..... HOWEVER.... we must also get our fiscal house in shape before we become Greece. Hopefully things can be worked out.

Damned if we do and damned we we don't. Wish things were cut and dry.

good luck to all
the dog
 
Hopefully the fiscal issues will be resolved and those provisions in the best interests of sportsmen will be passed.

Unfortunately, this situation strongly reflects the recent Republican positions which are contrary to wise conservation of public lands and are contrary to sportsmen, wildlife, and hunting / angling interests. It is the reason why we continue to hear lifelong Republicans like myself exclaim, "They are making me a Democrat!"

In my opinion, it is the very reason that Republican Senatorial candidate Denny Rehberg was defeated in Montana.
 
So, it reduces the deficit by $5million, but since it increases spending by $140 million, the idiots decide to kill it.

So, if a program raises revenue by a net increase of $145 million and only spends a net increase of $140 million, resulting in $5 million deficit reduction, it is a bad idea. You gotta be kidding me.

No wonder the government financial affairs are in the state they are.

Let's see ...... the CBO says it will reduce the deficit; it is the biggest piece of conservation and shooting legislation in my lifetime, but we are going to kill it.

Every hunting and shooting group in the country supports it. The wing nut anti-hunting groups oppose it. Senator Sessions and his pals want to be in the same camp as the screwballs.

Seems like few more idiots needed to be unelected.

A lot of Hunt Talkers have invested much energy in this bill's origination and passage. Tester put out the request for input from hunters, then added that input to this bill.

Every hunter should read S.3525 and see what it does for hunting, shooting, and access, then ask yourself if it should be killed for the sake of reducing the deficit by $5 million. I suspect not one person would want to kill it, even if it increased the deficit by that amount.

Stupidity has reached a climax in parts of the Senate this week. Idgits, damn idgits.
 
It's these types of bills that tear me apart. The bill does sound great and does a lot of good..... HOWEVER.... we must also get our fiscal house in shape before we become Greece. Hopefully things can be worked out.

Damned if we do and damned we we don't. Wish things were cut and dry.

good luck to all
the dog

In this instance, it is cut and dried.

While Congress has the power to tax, congress must first answer to the American people. Over 50 of the nation's leading conservation and gun rights groups came together, representing millions upon millions of Americans, and said "Get this done." Sessions doesn't want to give up authority to raise the price of the duck stamp. I can see why - it's this exact issue that dictates the future of America. I mean c'mon - another 10 bucks for a duck stamp? Might as well hand the country over to the Chinese and everyone learn how to order Moo-Goo Gai Pan.

Chief among them: The NRA - that loveable gang of big spenders and social liberals. That's right - The NRA was the biggest supporter of this bill. They were joined by DU, Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation and a host of other hook and bullet groups. Know who else liked this? The Wilderness Society .

Only in Congress do you get punished for getting Americans to come together and get something done. Truth is, Hunters asked for the increase in the price of the Duck Stamp, Tester stood up and said Alright, let's do this.

Partisan politics and the fear of being scored a no vote on the NRA scorecard led to this. It's politics at it's worst, and people should be incensed.
 
Although I'm not familiar with the details of the bill, I think it's safe to assume that I support its purpose. However, given how most government spending works, I find it hard to believe that $140 million of money generated will be used efficiently or effectively. We need better margins across the board. Sure, it's better than a net loss, but 3.5% is pretty weak.
 
........ It's politics at it's worst, and people should be incensed.

I am incensed. Beyond incensed. This bill represents so much progress for hunters and shooters.

I am driving down the road to an elk hunt in Arizona, looked own at the speedometer and noticed is was going 90 mph. Pulled over and had one of the camera guys drive, so I didn't pile us up in the huckleberries while emailing and calling people to find out more of how such idiocy could rule the day.

I am in disbelief at the level of D-baggery that can be invented in Washington DC. If you are a hunter, shooter, and angler, you should find out how your Senator voted, and either thank them or offer to work towards their unemployment.

The NRA should be publicly calling out those who are screwing this up. If it was all Dems who were laying the pipe to us, my Life Membership emails would be lit up with demands to march on the Capitol. Why is the NRA so silent in this case? They pushed hard for passage, but seem to be OK with politics taking away one of the best shooting bills of our lifetimes. Very disappointing.

My worries that the far right fringe would dig in deeper and drift further toward the fringe following the ass handing they got in last month's election, seems to be coming to fruition, at least in their absolute hatred towards hunters, anglers, and public lands. It is now official - beyond any doubt, I am no longer a Republican as defined by that group of simple minded self-righteous hypocrites.

I look at the resistance by a small handful of urban Dems who eventually decided to not oppose this bill, and decided to take a coffee break while this bill was being voted on so they wouldn't have to oppose it publicly. It shows me I have no use for them and their antics, further support to my forty-year conviction that I am not a Democrat.

Not sure what I am, but I know I am pissed off right now. I hope people understand how much their hunting and access has been improved by programs that are parts of this bill. Not just little bits, but huge amounts. If you hunt anywhere in SW Montana or Western Montana, LWCF has funding hundreds of thousands of acres of public land access.

If you like the record mallard count this year, you can thank the hard work of Ducks Unlimited, along with funding from Federal Programs that lets then arrange wetlands programs and easements with private landowners on the most critical of waterfowl nesting habitats. You can thank the Duck Stamp Program. All programs that would be continued under this bill.

If you like shooting and fish with lead sinkers or lures, you probably like the provisions that take away some crazy classifications by the EPA about lead ammo, and the push by some fringe groups to make all ammo lead free. This bill prevents keeps the EPA from making such changes.

If you like lots of Pittman-Roberston funds coming back to state agencies, you would like the provisions that increase shooting ranges and shooting opportunities in this bill. Ammo sales are one of the biggest sources of the P-R moneys. More shooters is good for all of us and good for conservation. This bill makes big steps to keep growing the shooting sports.

Yet, it is a victim of politics. Simple-minded zealots imposing personal ideologies to the detriment of the people.

I could maybe give some sort of credibility to the opposition's claim if this bill was going to further the deficit. I am a fiscal conservative and would put some weight in a claim such as that. But, that is completely out of the question on this one, and everyone knows it.

I feel sorry for the first elk that makes an appearance this week. Some frustrations could be headed his way.
 
This was the final straw for me. I am changing my voter registration later today from republican to independent. Purely ridiculous. I sure hope they can find a way to get this passed, as a rider or stand alone.
 
"the budget violations could be easily fixed"

then maybe these folks could have done this BEFORE the vote?
 
Although I'm not familiar with the details of the bill, I think it's safe to assume that I support its purpose. However, given how most government spending works, I find it hard to believe that $140 million of money generated will be used efficiently or effectively. We need better margins across the board. Sure, it's better than a net loss, but 3.5% is pretty weak.

Those funds are used effectively and efficiently. The programs associated with the bill are revenue generators and they help thousands of small businesses maintain a profitability. They also help DU raise a lot of private dollars which are matched by the federal funding to increase effectiveness o the program. For the Fed to get a 3.5 percent return on anything is a huge step in the right direction, and it's sportsmen and sportswomen who dictated that return.
 
"the budget violations could be easily fixed"

then maybe these folks could have done this BEFORE the vote?

Where were the objections when it was a 94-6 cloture vote in favor of the bill? It has nothing to do with perceived budget violations and everything to do with denying Tester a big win post-election.
 
Where were the objections when it was a 94-6 cloture vote in favor of the bill? It has nothing to do with perceived budget violations and everything to do with denying Tester a big win post-election.

so there are no violations? then that makes it even worse for the dumbasses that voted against it. and Ben, took that from the article posted above. didn't see that in another article I read about this.
 
Where were the objections when it was a 94-6 cloture vote in favor of the bill? It has nothing to do with perceived budget violations and everything to do with denying Tester a big win post-election.

Exactly. It is complete horse dung politics and everyone knows it.

The imbeciles opposing are hoping they can provide some procedural/ideological principle to convince voters they are looking out for us. Giving these morons a free pass or political cover on this one is not an option.

The far right has worked hard to earn their reputation as anti-hunters. A title and reputation I am more than willing to let them wear, reminding every hunter I know, that the right fringe has it in for hunters just as much as the left fringe. They prove it on a monthly basis, with this vote being one more layer of proof.
 
Point of clarification, the $140M in "new spending" was entirely from the increase in Duck Stamp fees correct? Or is there a breakout of what that $140M in spending over the next 10 years is made of?
 
so there are no violations? then that makes it even worse for the dumbasses that voted against it. and Ben, took that from the article posted above. didn't see that in another article I read about this.

The question of whether or not there are violations is up in the air. Duck Stamps are traditionally looked upon as fees, not taxes. Fees do not fall under the budget deal worked out in 2011, and they are applied by both houses in COngress, unlike Tax3es which must originate in the House.

A little history on the bill: In June or May, Tester starts working on this, combining 20 bills that have wide support across the aisle. In August, Jeff Thune signs on as a co-sponsor and together Tester and Thune work to get this implemented as an amendment to the Farm Bill. It dies because Tester is up for re-election.

In October, Tester pushes this forward as a stand alone bill. Thune declines to sign on, and comes to MT to campaign against Tester. The last vote before Congress Adjourns pre-election is to move this bill forward for a floor vote. It passes by a 95-5 vote.

Now, suddenly, Sessions has heartburn. In no time before this, in the last 6 months, has anyone raised this issue and worked to address it either through committee action, discussions with Tester or with Leader Reid. Instead, there were a lot of proposed amendments that would have watered down the bill, reduced protections for public lands or stripped out the EPA prohibition on regulating lead in ammo, Tester stood firm on the bill he put together, and fought those amendments off.

No amendment that I was aware of was offered to deal with the budget rules throughout the 6 month history of this bill, or the years long history of the individual components.

Now we look at yesterday: Jeff Sessions, ranking GOP senator on the budget committee stands up to kill this bill on a procedural motion that he knows the NRA won't score. He's got a re-election coming up in 2014, and doesn't want to compromise his A+ rating, so he pulls partisan politics and kills the bill on the procedural vote.

It's politics, nothing more. Tester won by a convincing margin in MT, and this is retribution for that.
 
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