Good for you Botswana
- Thread starter WildWill
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Curious, if in the US hunters could have the antlers and 10 meals (pretty much what you get in Africa trip) worth of elk but the rest all went to local food bank would you quit hunting? Smuggly snark at those who didn’t?
I for one couldn’t care less about antlers, and hunt for the experience with my son and with nature (which of course happens without guns too - we call that fishing season), and for the meat. But did do one African hunt. Fun experience, not my bag so not looking to do it again. Lots of ways to hunt. Lots of reasons to hunt. EU should let their old colonies manage their own affairs.
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buffybr
Well-known member
There are good and bad people in all societies all over the world. Unfortunately, this also includes hunters.
I believe the term "Trophy Hunting" was started by anti-hunters to put a derogatory light on hunters. Unfortunately, this term is also used by some hunters who believe that their form of meat hunting is holy and justified, but any hunter that brings home the horns or hide of the animal that they shot , and hangs them on their wall is a low life scum of a Trophy Hunter.
I didn't come from a hunting family. It wasn't until I was in college that one of my roommates invited me to go hunting with him. I shot a spike mule deer buck and that winter my roommates and I enjoyed eating every ounce of meat from that little buck. And since I proudly hung those trophy antlers on my bedroom wall, I became a Trophy Hunter.
The next year I again hunted with my roommate and shot my first elk. Again I hung those elk antlers on the wall of the house that we rented, and we enjoyed eating elk meat that winter. That got me hooked on hunting, and now I have 80 taxidermied mounts, or trophies in my house, but the meat from most of those animals has fed my family and I for over 50 years.
Most, if not all US states require that hunters bring all edible game meat out of the field. Alaska requires that all the meat must be brought out of the field before the antlers or head can be brought can be brought out (except grizzly bears).
Many of the rural African people are meat protien starved. The camp where I hunted in Mozambique was in a 600,000 plus government consession. One of the terms of the consession was that my PH had to supply the local school with one sable antelope every month.
There are no Hyenas and very rarely any Lions in that part of Mozambique, so Leopard baits are ground level instead of up in trees. One of the baits was a sable shoulder, wired to a stump and sitting on the ground. It sat there for over a week in 90 degree plus temperatures. The part on the ground had turned black. When it was no longer of use for leopard bait, the camp staff took it back to camp and they ate it.
BuzzH, when you travel and stay in a motel, do you wash the towels and bed sheets, and vaccuum the room before you leave, or do leave that for the motel staff to clean? And when you go to a restaurant, do you go backin the kitchen and cook your meal, or do you let the restaurant staff serve you?
Just like the term "Assault Weapon" was invented by an ignorant news media and perpetuated by ignorant politions who know virtually nothing about firearms other than civilian semi-auto AR and AK rifles look like their military counterparts, people who say that Trophy Hunting is a bad thing, usually don't know what they are talking about.
And I sleep just fine every night knowing that my freezer is full of delicious wild game meat and that my walls are covered with the heads and skins of animals from many hunts that I will enjoy the memories of for the rest of my life.
I believe the term "Trophy Hunting" was started by anti-hunters to put a derogatory light on hunters. Unfortunately, this term is also used by some hunters who believe that their form of meat hunting is holy and justified, but any hunter that brings home the horns or hide of the animal that they shot , and hangs them on their wall is a low life scum of a Trophy Hunter.
I didn't come from a hunting family. It wasn't until I was in college that one of my roommates invited me to go hunting with him. I shot a spike mule deer buck and that winter my roommates and I enjoyed eating every ounce of meat from that little buck. And since I proudly hung those trophy antlers on my bedroom wall, I became a Trophy Hunter.
The next year I again hunted with my roommate and shot my first elk. Again I hung those elk antlers on the wall of the house that we rented, and we enjoyed eating elk meat that winter. That got me hooked on hunting, and now I have 80 taxidermied mounts, or trophies in my house, but the meat from most of those animals has fed my family and I for over 50 years.
I've been fortunate enough to have done 12 international hunts, and I have brought meat home from Canadian hunts and Alaskan hunts. I've done 6 hunts in Africa: South Africa, Zimbabwe, and Mozambique. Yes, I brought skins and horns home, but the US Government does not allow any meat to be brought home. On one trip home, I bought a small package of commericially prepared biltong (jerky) at a Johannesburg airport gift store, and it was conficated by US Customs at the Atlanta airport.
Most, if not all US states require that hunters bring all edible game meat out of the field. Alaska requires that all the meat must be brought out of the field before the antlers or head can be brought can be brought out (except grizzly bears).
You cannot compare the wages of rural Africans with the government mandated minimum wages here in America. For many of them their only income is little stand on the side of a road where they try to sell fruit or vegetables that they grow on their little patch of dry dirt next to their dirt floor, 200 sf mud walls and grass roofed shack with a half dozen half naked, barefoot kids, chickens, and a few goats. They are very happy to be employed in a hunting camp. Trophy Hunter's dollars pay the wages of the camp staff. Yes, being employed at a hunting camp really does help out many of these people.
Many of the rural African people are meat protien starved. The camp where I hunted in Mozambique was in a 600,000 plus government consession. One of the terms of the consession was that my PH had to supply the local school with one sable antelope every month.
There are no Hyenas and very rarely any Lions in that part of Mozambique, so Leopard baits are ground level instead of up in trees. One of the baits was a sable shoulder, wired to a stump and sitting on the ground. It sat there for over a week in 90 degree plus temperatures. The part on the ground had turned black. When it was no longer of use for leopard bait, the camp staff took it back to camp and they ate it.
BuzzH, when you travel and stay in a motel, do you wash the towels and bed sheets, and vaccuum the room before you leave, or do leave that for the motel staff to clean? And when you go to a restaurant, do you go backin the kitchen and cook your meal, or do you let the restaurant staff serve you?
Just like the term "Assault Weapon" was invented by an ignorant news media and perpetuated by ignorant politions who know virtually nothing about firearms other than civilian semi-auto AR and AK rifles look like their military counterparts, people who say that Trophy Hunting is a bad thing, usually don't know what they are talking about.
And I sleep just fine every night knowing that my freezer is full of delicious wild game meat and that my walls are covered with the heads and skins of animals from many hunts that I will enjoy the memories of for the rest of my life.
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BuzzH
Well-known member
I would quit, absolutely yes. Would still give money to wildlife, work for conservation, habitat, public lands, etc.
I think most wouldn't and would be right up their ally, unfortunately.
Carl 9.3x62
Well-known member
Hey you keep those rhino foot ashtrays out of here, this thread is about elephant foot trash cans!
LuketheDog
Well-known member
They're probably hunting pachyderms on the Dark Continent, he needs a new trophy trash can.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
NEWHunter
Well-known member
Exactly. Twelve pages of crap and this is what it boils down to.
“Trophy hunting” has been used by the anti hunters to vilify hunters for years - shoot the animal, take the antlers, leave the rest to rot. All of us here agree that’s wrong. It’s not hunting, it’s killing. Unfortunately, I think this is how the vast majority of the U.S./world population views “trophy hunting.” To paraphrase Dr. McGraw “my perception is my reality.” Let’s all just be more thoughtful about our word choices.
elkantlers
Well-known member
Elephants have to go. Think of the elderly.
www.yahoo.com
Elderly American tourist killed in elephant attack while on safari in Zambia
An elderly American tourist was killed after an "aggressive" bull elephant attacked a vehicle during a game drive in Zambia, the safari operator said. The incident took place Saturday morning at Kafue National Park, a Lusaka Police spokesperson confirmed to ABC News. Gail Mattson, 79, was...
I think desk pop did a great job of summarizing why the tuskless gene is not desirable in the population. Elephants need tusks for part of their feeding. Being tuskless is a genetic defect, and it requires them to steal food from elephants who have tusks. In a small normal percentage, like 3%, it’s not a big deal. But when that percentage starts to climb it then becomes problematic. I have heard reports of places where up to 10% of the population is now tuskless. If that percentage were to become too high, it would have a catastrophic effect on elephants. Essentially it would get to the point where the tusked elephants would not be able to provide enough food for the Tuskless and for themselves.
Tusked cows are not on quota anywhere in Africa that I am aware of. Elephant Quotas are very small and restricted by country and concession and generally are only for bulls. Zimbabwe is the only country I am aware of that allows a tuskless harvest.
I’ve seen tuskless in Mozambique on my hunt last year. Mozambique does not have a tuskless quota at this time.
It appears you have a moral objection to hunting elephants. That is perfectly fine and you’re entitled to your opinion. But using rhetoric such as “smoking them” seems a little disrespectful to not only elephant hunters, but the elephants themselves. Unless you’re just trying to stir the pot.
There is a strong biological reason we need to manage elephant populations, just like we manage elk here in America. Left unchecked elephants are going to eat themselves out of house and home and destroy valuable habitat for every other species in the area.
Botswana has a hunting quota of 400 elephants per year. That is 0.33% of Botswana‘s current elephant population.
Hunting elephants is no different than hunting elk or deer here in America. Everybody has their own personal reason that they choose to hunt. In the end, the species benefits overall by the taking of individual animals. That seems like a positive outcome to me.
Chase
SwaggyD
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2022
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- 1,441
I just saw that - you beat me to it!Elephants have to go. Think of the elderly.
Elderly American tourist killed in elephant attack while on safari in Zambia
An elderly American tourist was killed after an "aggressive" bull elephant attacked a vehicle during a game drive in Zambia, the safari operator said. The incident took place Saturday morning at Kafue National Park, a Lusaka Police spokesperson confirmed to ABC News. Gail Mattson, 79, was...
Thank you for the kind words.
You may not have any interest in South Africa (I’ll never hunt SA). But if you do a little research on some of the more remote wild areas in Zimbabwe, Mozambique, Botswana, and Tanzania(if your rich lol), You might get the bug. Mozambique and Zimbabwe are both quite reasonable price wise to Hunt.
I have always wanted to hunt Africa since I was a teenager. I finally went, and now I’ll go back as many times as I can. It is truly an adventure if you pick the right outfitter.
I hope you decide to go someday. I doubt you will regret the experience!
Chase
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
#darwincallingElephants have to go. Think of the elderly.
Elderly American tourist killed in elephant attack while on safari in Zambia
An elderly American tourist was killed after an "aggressive" bull elephant attacked a vehicle during a game drive in Zambia, the safari operator said. The incident took place Saturday morning at Kafue National Park, a Lusaka Police spokesperson confirmed to ABC News. Gail Mattson, 79, was...
The strong taking out the old and weak thereby strengthening the herd. Tale as old as time
Thank you!
Mozambique was an adventure from beginning to end. I hunted late October, and the rain season should’ve started late November. We got hit with a huge rainstorm the morning we left Tete. It took us over 30 hours to get to camp (12 is normal). we slept in a local village the first night out of Necessity lol. Got the Land Cruiser stuck 13 times before making it to camp.
We were on Buffalo every day and saw a ton of cool things while tracking. I caught a leopard tortoise, white throat monitor, and African rock python all while tracking Buffalo. Saw a female leopard and bush pigs in daylight while tracking buffalo. Also saw 2 packs of wild dogs. Hunted hard every day and made it a life changing experience.
I’m really looking forward to my tuskless hunt in September. I’ll be in the Save valley Conservancy hunting with Mokore. Just took my VX6 off my 375 and replaced it with a Trijicon SRO the other day. It’s all dialed in at the range and ready to go. I’ll be doing dry fire practice all summer and watching videos and studying pics for Frontal and side brain shots. I’m mostly concerned with making sure I do a lot of studying on a frontal shot and using the zygomatic arches depending on head elevation.
I hope someday to have half the experience you have hunting in Africa.
Chase
jryoung
Well-known member
Elephants have to go. Think of the elderly.
Elderly American tourist killed in elephant attack while on safari in Zambia
An elderly American tourist was killed after an "aggressive" bull elephant attacked a vehicle during a game drive in Zambia, the safari operator said. The incident took place Saturday morning at Kafue National Park, a Lusaka Police spokesperson confirmed to ABC News. Gail Mattson, 79, was...
SSS
I think you need to be more specific. What you are talking about is how it is done in South Africa. Game is privately owned and can be sold, and often is.
In Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique, Tanzania, etc. the game is owned by the government who sets seasons and quotas. Not unlike our states in the US. The meat in those countries is donated to the local villages and staff gets a ration. None of it is sold to anyone.
Everyone should keep in mind that Africa is a big continent. It’s not the same in every country.
Chase
Visiting Hunter
Well-known member
All I got on this thread is this is exactly why I would have to study the history of hunting in Africa, the culture, and customs to ever get remotly interested.
Wouldn't it be humorous to see cargo ship, after cargo ship loaded with elephants headed to Germany though.
Wouldn't it be humorous to see cargo ship, after cargo ship loaded with elephants headed to Germany though.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Bring a big f’ing shovel, a ladder and pack a lunch . . .
Nick87
Well-known member
You ever actually tried digging a hole with a shovel...those old westerns where they bury everybody in a couple hours are full of shit.
Eric24
Member
Finally put to rest!
