Go to where the money is...

[teej89]

Is the advice my dad recently gave to me that my mom's dad gave to him when he was my age, 27. I recently posted here about how the lady and I want to move out west. After a lot of consideration I think we're going to go with AZ because of the more mild winters compared to other places we were considering. Our first thought was Phoenix, it'd be really easy to get jobs cuz of it being a city however... it's a city and way too hot in the summers. We live in columbus now and are tired of columbus due to wasting so much time commuting to and from work, commuting 45min to an hour and a half just do some recreational outdoor activities away from people. We just feel like our lives are flashing by but we're doing nothing because to do anything while living in a city it requires a lot of commuting time. With that being said we are looking at the prescott valley area, we have a trip planned in january to fly out there for a couple days to visit and make sure we really do like it.

With that being said she would most likely be taking a pay cut of $10k and I'm assuming I'd drop 10-15k as well. To me I don't see an issue in this because we're good with our money and we can just cut back on some misc expenses. I see my dads point, i think, but he was always miserable and still kinda is. I obviously don't take it personally just cuz he's a grump but he said if he never got married and had kids he would be living in a cabin in Montana with the dogs. Is the money really worth being somewhere where you're not happy?

Thanks guys!

 

[Deleted member 20812]

I don't think so.

Life is all about compromises. I took a hefty pay raise to leave a really good place because other things were a priority, like being able to help our girls with college expenses. That said, we were very selective in where we went, and have since been able to improve our living location by quite a bit.

Not many decisions are permanent, take some risks and live life.

 

[406LIFE]

Both of my parents recently retired and what I learned is that in retirement you simply trade money for time. Their income changes some, but they get all the time they want now.

For me, an early thirties guy, I've turned down money before to do what made me happy. And even now, in MT, where jobs are hard to come by, I do the same thing my parents are doing, trading money for time. Everything I want is here and while I know I could double my salary in other states, I wouldn't have what I would want. Sure, I don't get a new rifle every other year, or am able to go to Africa on a true safari. But literally every day of the year there is something out in these mountains that I could chase. I would work at McDonald's before I left Montana. Besides, as Maclean says, the world "full of bastards, the number increasing rapidly the farther one gets from Missoula, Montana." I better stick close to home.

 

[Big Fin]

At ages 28 and 26, my wife and I took 30% (me) and 60% (her) pay cuts to move to Montana. We decided if we didn't do it in our 20's, we would get accustomed to a certain standard of living and we would struggle to take the cut in our 30's, almost impossible in our 40's, and never in our 50's. And if we didn't do it, we would spend our lives living in places we really didn't like, making lots of money, yet mostly miserable in our existence.

People looked at us as though had lost our minds. 25 years later, we have not regretted a single day of it.

I have a theory as to why most people cherish their two-week vacations as such great times; they are miserable in their daily life the other fifty weeks of the year. I can't say every day is a vacation, but it is nice to be somewhere near the things you love, living in the culture you want, raising your kid(s) in the same, and knowing how lucky you are to be living the life you have chosen, not the life others have chosen for you.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[teej89]

Thanks guys I appreciate the responses! That's my thing yeah in the city right now I make hellvua good money for my age but... I work 50-60hrs a week and commute an hour a day for work then when I get home another hour to take the dog to the lake/woods. When my buds at home, who make a good bit less than me, drive 10min to work, work 8hrs, go home and pick up their bows/guns and hunt the evenings or meet up for some drinks and grilling, I barely have time to cook dinner.... My fear is kids are in my future, <5yrs and I don't want to make an irresponsible decision now and pay for it later.

 

[Hunts]

any place that there is a thriving economy you are going to have to drive an hour(or more) to escape the crowds. Even out west. the planet is crowded.

 

[Nameless Range]

Take my input with a grain of salt, because I have never entertained living anywhere but Montana really.

Out of college I was offered a very lucrative job in the Bakken doing work I wanted to do. I had applied for the job but no amount of money was worth spending time away from my then 1 year old daughter, so I turned it down and took a job making 30% of what that job offered. It was a great decision. Today I am home watching over a sick kid. I think the culture of where you work is as important as the money. It's not a big deal if I need to stay home with my kids when they are sick. If I all of sudden on a couple days notice wanna take a day off to go hunting it almost always can be worked out. To me, schedule flexibility is huge, and offsets thousands of dollars in wages. On the other hand, I turned down a job in a corner of Montana where I would have loved to have lived, but because it would have been a big pay cut and perhaps a little isolated for my family we decided against it. There is a ton of evidence out there that commute length correlates with unhappiness. So much human life is spent behind the windshield, and IMO often feels wasted. Just a thought. Jobs, money, location - all a balance - and I think our relationships are ultimately the scale.

Last thing: 3 weeks ago I went to a funeral for a 25 year old friend. He's been on my mind a lot lately. He had plans of his own. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. I feel like that fact has to be a chief consideration for many choices in our lives, especially our choice of where to live and work. We are lucky to live in a part of the world with such a luxury. There are many who don't have a choice. There may not be a wrong answer.

 

[Fleetwood]

"I have a theory as to why most people cherish their two-week vacations as such great times; they are miserable in their daily life the other fifty weeks of the year. I can't say every day is a vacation, but it is nice to be somewhere near the things you love, living in the culture you want, raising your kid(s) in the same, and knowing how lucky you are to be living the life you have chosen, not the life others have chosen for you." -Big Fin

Such wisdom here.

 

[HSi-ESi]

Go now - it's way easier without kids. It'll be a fun adventure for you and your wife.

I was born and raised in MT. I went to school in the Seattle area - and that experience was enough to let me know I had to live in a place that didn't have lots of people. I've had thousands of "vacations" where I can just head up into the mountains for a couple of nights.

You would be surprised of the job opportunities. Most of my friends (people I grew up with in small town America) have good jobs and enjoy life here.

My advice would be to move. Good things will come. Plus - a motivated, happy employee is much more productive than a pissed-off-at-life one.

 

[----]

4-5 years ago I almost 'had' to take a job in Seattle. I lucked out and was offered a job in my hometown days before having to take the other job. Like Nameless' gig, it's a pretty low stress operation where I can take the time I need when I need it to do what I want. If I killed an elk after work tonight, I would have no worries about packing it out tomorrow morning.

This weekend my wife and I went over there for a weekend 'getaway'. The entire time we were there we couldn't stop talking about how disconnected the people are that live there, and how incredibly lucky we are to live where we do.

We only get one crack at this, and there's no justifiable reason to spend it in a spot that doesn't make you happy.

I'll gladly drive a ten year old truck rather than a new one, and live in a 1000 sq ft house rather than one twice the size, if it means I get to wake up to this view and be hunting in a wilderness area within 5 miles of my house.

 

[MTGomer]

Right out of college, I worked in North Dakota during the oilboom. ND is a fine place, but you never get to enjoy it working 80 hr weeks.
But it was always meant to be temporary and it was temporary. I got experience that made it easier to get a job I'd like and could live on comfortably almost anywhere, so to me it was worth it.
I'm now making and working half as much, and am very thankful for the sacrifice I made.

I would not recommend moving anywhere you wouldn't' be happy, just for money, if the move is intended to be permanent.
But would highly recommend moving somewhere for lifestyle, as long as you don't starve.

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

My experience is that quality of life is inversely proportional to time spent commuting daily regardless of where you live.

I think there are trade offs to location especially where money/career and location are involved. I live in the middle of a city and there is a thriving culture of young professionals who do outdoor activities all over the country because they make enough money to afford flights to go camp/ski/hunt etc. I don't necessarily spend a ton fewer days afield while living in the city, but rather miss out on the hunt before/after work type activities while maintaining the same number of days on longer trips while going cooler places and having nicer gear. In some ways living away from easy hunting access has pushed me into cooler hunts because the travel and cost of hunting in state add up enough to justify out of state hunts after only a weekend or two "locally". With only 2 weeks of vacation last year and living in the city I managed to fish in Canada for a week and hunt 5 different states throughout the year thanks to red eye drives and airplanes.

While I wouldn't consider my situation 100% ideal, its one that my wife and I have settled on while we are young and mobile because of our individual careers for a certain period of time. Luckily my wife's career path will force at least one move in the next 2 years and likely another before "settling down" so much of my life is permanently temporary. I think what a lot of people are getting at is that its to easy to get comfortable in a location and end up stuck there forever.

 

[Muskeez]

To me, #1 priority is take care of your family and be a good husband and father (someday for you). That doesn't just mean making enough money to support them, it means having enough time to spend WITH them doing anything that you all enjoy together. #2 save some $ every single month in a mutual fund, no matter what, so that you can retire comfortably when you want to. #3 enjoy every day you are given with the ones that you love.
When I started my business I worked my tail off, mostly to prove the FIL wrong that said it wasn't a good idea. I made a helluva living, the sacrifice was I spent evenings working instead of with my wife. (I always made time for the kids, but she was neglected a little.) Now I work less, make less, and spend a ton of time with my wife and kids and we still get by just fine. You can't put a price on what that does to build relationships that you need for a lifetime.
My advice, DO IT NOW, you can always move to the city later if you really HAVE to.

 

[Ben Lamb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbR7axof1wk

Take the excellent advice from the guys who've been there & done that. Including Ferris.

Live your life and enjoy the ride.

 

[sbhooper]

In some of the smaller areas in Az, the jobs may be hard to get. Phoenix is only a short distance from some great country, anyway. Tucson is the same way and would be my preference for a big city.

The biggest problem with the southwest ( and really most places) anymore, is that there are just too damn many people cluttering up the landscape. I lived in Az for over 10 years and left in 1988. Going back there now is absolutely disgusting to me. If I went back, it would be Payson, or some other mountain town, since I don't have to look for work. Another growing problem in the southwest that no one much talks about, is that there are so many people that the water situation is getting to be problematic in many areas.

My wife is from Az and would like to go back, but I think that I will take the winters and stay where I have endless water.

 

[SFC B]

Some of you all have seen my recent post about my struggle with something similar. With the money issues I got handed once I retired and Uncle Sam decided to not pay me for several months it necessitated me come to Germany without the family to make some $$$$ while attempting to get fed job back in the Springs. I have been living in Kaiserslautern in a great apartment, making lots of money, eating good food, drinking great beer and......being miserable every single day. After 20 years of the Army I thought I wouldn't have to do it again and have been angry about it since the day I got here. As of next week I will be home and am thanking God. NOTHING is worth being somewhere you don't want to be...especially if it separates you from the ones you love. Follow your heart...money is an evil mistress. SFC B

 

[jryoung]

When I was 24 I put myself back in school, I was still a bit unclear as to what I wanted to do with my life and the advice given to me by the CEO of a very large media company told me "figure out how you want to live your life and how much money it will take, then pick a job that fits that pay scale".

I think this directly applies to your situation, in that you are trying to figure out how you want to live your life, and what are your priorities. A pay cut to live your life how you want is absolutely worth it.

 

[wolfpup]

I struggle with this debate quite often. My wife is from the Bay Area California and I am from the boonies of Eastern Colorado. We both have great jobs in a midsize city in CO, but I could go smaller and she could go bigger. We balance it by living close enough to the airports, mountains, work and have a nice house. I think you have to look the overall pros and cons and decide if your actually happy where you are and if it would help not being where you are. I like having money and a job that affords us new vehicles, nice house, and able to fund hunts, daycare, etc. etc. We have a long term goal that is much more important to me than the short term pains of daily life. We have settled somewhere in the middle of what she would like and what I would like and it works out because it is good for the family. We are both happy as a result which is the ultimate outcome anybody wants. We are both 30 y/o so this could all change in the future but we plan to semi-retire at 55!

 

[el unit]

Everyday is a vacation in Montana! And we just started the best 90 days of it.

 

[schmalts]

It depends on what your priorities are. If making money and having a nicer house is better than enjoying the surroundings when you leave that castle, well follow the money. I wish I would have moved to the west a long time ago. At this point I am hoping to partial retire in 5 years so I am stuck in my rut until then, plus having a 15 year old makes it harder to move. Do it now before you get too many reasons not too. Two side to every coin and too many variables. In a big city you can make more money, meaning more money in a 401K meaning a better retirement in the end. The other side is all those years making money for that 401K you were not doing things you may wish you did when you were younger. If you said your money situation is good, meaning you may come into money from inheritance down the road or are already set for retirement I would get the hell out of the rat race now!