FWP not looking too good in the fishing world either

[Stone_Ice_1]

The Big Hole River and its continued state of peril; trout numbers again at historic lows

Recent data from three sections of the 153-mile freestone river in southwest Montana showed the fewest number of brown and rainbow trout since data was first collected in 1969.

helenair.com

I floated the Bighole 2 years ago after not getting on it for a few years and was shocked at the lack of fish compared to when I was going to school in Dillon. It appears from this article it has gotten even worse.

My favorite quote from the story

“Our native fish evolved in this habitat and are a key indicator species,” he said. “Something that's been just horribly really unprofessional, on the part of Fish, Wildlife and Parks to ignore is collecting long-term data and monitoring whitefish populations.”

So it sounds like the hunting arena isn't the only place FWP doesn't/won't follow any long term data trends or even collect the data. The article also says the fisheries manager person for region 3 has been open for 1.5 years while this is going on. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, how does that happen? I know lots of folks that would jump at the chance of that job if FWP ever tried to recruit for it

 

[TheTone]

So it sounds like the hunting arena isn't the only place FWP doesn't/won't follow any long term data trends or even collect the data. The article also says the fisheries manager person for region 3 has been open for 1.5 years while this is going on. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, how does that happen? I know lots of folks that would jump at the chance of that job if FWP ever tried to recruit for it

is the job based out of Bozeman? If so I’d guess wages and cost of living are the reason it’s remained vacant.

 

[Schaaf]

FWP (GG) not calling their water rights on the Smith & Shields rivers during a historic drought really told me all I needed to know about their priorities when it comes to stream health.

 

[sclancy27]

Yea, 2020 and 2021 were not kind to the Big Hole or any river in SW MT. I hadn't heard that FWP didn't call their rights, but honestly, with who is in charge, it doesn't suprise me. We need a several normal ish winters and melt cycles to bring it back.

Edit: Looking at the population data something was definitely going on before the recent droughts. What that is, I don't know if anyone has any ideas.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

What that is, I don't know if anyone has any ideas.

Woofs?

 

[Beignet]

I’ve often wondered what wild trout fishing throughout the country will look like 20 years from now. Methinks the outlook is pretty bleak unless everyone is content with fishing in tailwaters for a half mile behind a dam.

More context to Schaaf’s post:

Gianforte stopped FWP effort to bolster streamflow, requires protocol

At the start of last summer’s heat waves, Gov. Greg Gianforte barred Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks from enforcing FWP water rights to keep enough water in two rivers for ecosystem health.

missoulacurrent.com

 

[antlerradar]

FWP (GG) not calling their water rights on the Smith & Shields rivers during a historic drought really told me all I needed to know about their priorities when it comes to stream health.

I don't know for sure about the Smith and Shields rivers, but on the Tongue, FWP's water rights are so low on the priority date that they would be laughed at if they made a call during a drought. Good chance the Smith and Shields are the same way.

 

[Nameless Range]

You read that article and it seems we don't know why. I can engage in barstool science conjecture.

-When I drive along the Big Hole, from Divide to Wisdom, it is much like the upper Madison - a damn fisherman/floater every 100 yards or so. That is basically happening 6 months out of the year, and it's pressured year round. How the hell many of our waterbodies and streams aren't fished out is a mystery to me, except for the fact that I believe some are.

-Last August, the Big Hole River at Wisdom registered 20 cfs. Essentially the same amount as Prickly Pear Creek near Clancy, MT, which is about 10 feet wide and 4 inches deep. That's crazy.

- I know that a lot of collaborative work has happened in the Big Hole, but many tributaries to the Big Hole and elsewhere, are bovine mudpits, and fish have to make it through those places to get to the clean water above if they can. In a low water year like the last few is it even doable...

-Disease, Fungus, as the article states - seems very possible doesn't it.

I bet if omniscience were on offer, we'd find there's numerous angles from which pressure is coming and the storm is perfecting. The focus of the article is the plummet of non-native fish - should it come as any surprise that we've fouled up a system? Double the amount of fisherman days on the river in the last 15 years?

Sometimes I think we shouldn't jump to conclusions, and others I wonder if the answers are obvious. Be nice if folks were given the directive and resources to figure it out.

 

[sclancy27]

We just need to get used to fishing for smallies in alot of these western rivers. They are absolutely going to get into these systems and are probably going to be the dominate fish, at least in the low to mid reaches of the Madison, Gallatin, Jeff, Big Hole, Ruby, Beaverhead and Missouri headwaters. The only thing that is gonna stop them are the dams.

 

[Bambistew]

Those fish didn't evolve in that habitat in that condition. It's only been raped and pillaged for the last 150 years. Something like 75% of the water in the entire catchment is used for irrigation. It's unsustainable. Expect it to get worse.

Not sure how much FWP can really do as far as management. They close it to fishing in the summer when flows are low and water is warm.

 

[DFS]

Nothing that shifting the baseline can’t fix. The higher populations were probably at unsustainable levels.

Sarcasm font.

 

[antlerradar]

After reading the article above and seeing that FWP's water rights are dated in the 1970's I could be right. By Montana standards the 1970's is a crap priority date.

 

[Southern Elk]

We are going to have to limit the number of fisherman on these rivers. The sooner we do it, the better off the fishery will be. Don't believe me? Drive the Madison on a summer afternoon and see for yourself.

 

[Stone_Ice_1]

is the job based out of Bozeman? If so I’d guess wages and cost of living are the reason it’s remained vacant.

I don't know for sure but I bet they haven't even posted the job, budget issues, yada yada... People would apply for that job regardless of where they had to live.

Fisherman numbers are certainly an issue. I don't think it is one of the bigger problems for these fish. I first started fishing the Madison and other southwest Montana rivers and there were tons of fisherman on the rivers then. It changes as the fish populations change and probably will again now if there isn't as many fish to catch.

 

[BirdManMike]

Those fish didn't evolve in that habitat in that condition. It's only been raped and pillaged for the last 150 years. Something like 75% of the water in the entire catchment is used for irrigation. It's unsustainable. Expect it to get worse.

Not sure how much FWP can really do as far as management. They close it to fishing in the summer when flows are low and water is warm.

Exactly. Its a water issue. Need for more than sustainable amounts of drinking water (entire Gallatin valley!), insufficient waste water treatment (ie Gardiner, Big Sky), or irrigation demand (everywhere!) - its a water issue everywhere. Once the water gets out of the mountains, things get bad for fisheries.

 

[BirdManMike]

We are going to have to limit the number of fisherman on these rivers. The sooner we do it, the better off the fishery will be. Don't believe me? Drive the Madison on a summer afternoon and see for yourself.

The Madison (and a lot of other places, Big Hole included) is a zoo, but fishing isnt the main cause - or even close to it - of the decline in fishing.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Man, I looked at Montana as being a model of cold water fisheries management for so long... I sure hope the balance of power can change soon. I feel confident that at a fundamental level, the people of Montana overwhelmingly want healthy trout streams, healthy elk herds, access to both, etc.

 

[Ben Lamb]

SB 442 would provide the irrigators, water advocates, Trout bums, etc the financial ability to enact cutting edge water conservation projects hich would have been hugely helpful in at least ensuring best management practices for irrigators and stream flow return.

But it got vetoed.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Man, I looked at Montana as being a model of cold water fisheries management for so long... I sure hope the balance of power can change soon. I feel confident that at a fundamental level, the people of Montana overwhelmingly want healthy trout streams, healthy elk herds, access to both, etc.

I would put FWP's fisheries division up against any other state. This isn't a fisheries division issue, it's a political issue relative to water rights.

 

[Southern Elk]

The Madison (and a lot of other places, Big Hole included) is a zoo, but fishing isnt the main cause - or even close to it - of the decline in fishing.

Don't they say that catch and release fishing kills up to 20% of the fish caught? I don't know how there's any fish left. The Madison isn't subject to low flows like the Big Hole, because its a tailwater river from Hebgen to the Missouri.