FWP lies about Corner Crossing

[Elky Welky]

I'll be inquiring of FWP next week as to the source of authority on their affirmative statement that corner crossing is "unlawful." My attorneys spent considerable time yesterday trying again to find such a case or statute and none were found.

I will post here what I am provided, if anything.

Much appreciated @Big Fin. I’ve been through that exercise multiple times, and also asked the department to provide a statute or case law on point, and they have not provided anything to date.

 

[keakakea]

What’s the difference between unlawful and illegal? This FAQ page has been out for a while and says it’s illegal without actually citing anything

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf#page17

 

[RobG]

What’s the difference between unlawful and illegal? This FAQ page has been out for a while and says it’s illegal without actually citing anything

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf#page17

Again, if you can find the previous revision of this you will see they changed their position. I wish I could find my copy...

 

[RobG]

Just asking a question:

So if I ( a land owner) bought a piece of land encompassed by public lands (not in Wilderness or other protected property) and only way to get there was through that public land, get access to build a road through said public lands to my property? Anyone?

Not necessarily, although it gives the agency leverage to negotiate reciprocal access. https://www.backcountryhunters.org/...side_of_crazy_mountains_should_open_this_fall

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Furthermore, the intent did not focus on poaching, but on the taking of wildlife not allowed by a specific permit or license specifying sex of animal to be tagged

This is correct. It was this way for decades.

Anyone who lost meat because of this law has no idea how to field dress properly.

 

[Elky Welky]

What’s the difference between unlawful and illegal? This FAQ page has been out for a while and says it’s illegal without actually citing anything

https://fwp.mt.gov/binaries/content/assets/fwp/hunt/hunter-faq-09-9-2021-final.pdf#page17

The differences between "unlawful" and "illegal" are largely semantic, although unlawful (at least according to a dictionary) encompasses a few more things. I would love to see the earlier FAQs, and I wonder at what point they decided to summarily declare corner crossing illegal without citing any authority or law on the books.

Also note in this article https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...cle_c144e318-00cc-11ee-bfa8-c71944864f49.html that the department was going to switch their position back (to one that is supported by the law) as recently as January, but they have again reversed course and are holding the line now.

 

[joelweb]

The below is from the DNRC access guide. Appears to be from 2018. http://archive-dnrc.mt.gov/division...ess-guide-to-federal-and-state-lands-2018.pdf

 

[Elky Welky]

The below is from the DNRC access guide. Appears to be from 2018. http://archive-dnrc.mt.gov/division...ess-guide-to-federal-and-state-lands-2018.pdf

View attachment 278780

Its pretty funny how the question posed is "what does the law say?" and then the DNRC doesn't answer the question, cites no law, and simply says it is not recommended. This is more accurate, however, than what FWP is doing now with their FAQs.

 

[WildWill]

sacrosanct.

 

[Mallardsx2]

All of this and here I am…hung up on the “he shits in a campfire” statement. Lmfao

Got to be the funniest thing I’ve read on here in a while lol

 

[Dave N]

All of this and here I am…hung up on the “he shits in a campfire” statement. Lmfao

Got to be the funniest thing I’ve read on here in a while lol

Well, technically, he shits on a Chinet paper plate and throws it in his stove to burn. Tomato tomahto.

 

[Khunter]

The slippery slope argument that your making is galling because most Americans have these small micro trespasses on their property daily and they go completely unnoticed.

This issue IMHO has nothing to do with trespass and everything to do with controlling public lands.

Agree 100% because, well, it is obviously true. It is all about that.

 

[Elky Welky]

Agree 100% because, well, it is obviously true. It is all about that.

The plaintiffs in the WY case weren't even hiding this fact. They sued for $7 million, which is what they valued as the worth of their exclusive access to public land.

 

[Elky Welky]

Excellent analysis by Brett French in the Gazette Today. Looks like FWP has finally scraped the bottom of the barrel to find some case law in attempt to support their declaration that corner crossing is unlawful. Of course, when pressed, they declined any further comment.

@Beignet thanks for the sticker; I'm displaying it with pride!



https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...be9f081d3.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

 

[Nameless Range]

Excellent analysis by Brett French in the Gazette Today. Looks like FWP has finally scraped the bottom of the barrel to find some case law in attempt to support their declaration that corner crossing is unlawful. Of course, when pressed, they declined any further comment.

@Beignet thanks for the sticker; I'm displaying it with pride!

View attachment 279623

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...be9f081d3.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

How do I get my paws on one of those stickers!?

 

[Beignet]

How do I get my paws on one of those stickers!?

PM me your address and I’ll mail one over next week once I’m off the Selway.

 

[JEL]

https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...VKhvrO95UkORi_b2VFBWIVAs0LVZJuHJGwcbn-_0AhIjA

 

[Pucky Freak]

“…Temple stated in a press release that, “Corner crossing remains unlawful in Montana”… The following day, Temple was named director of FWP…”

Temple will give DeSantis a run for his money at this rate.

 

[Dakotakid]

This may or may not be true. I don’t know how the corner crossing issue ever became a law or imposition, but in simple Geometry, I did learn that a point on a plane has no dimension and I am assuming that is the genesis of the issue of not recognizing a corner as a point of access.

How it has turned into such a critical concern is interesting, but I can’t see why it can’t be resolved the same as the stream access bill that allows trespass (if you want to call it that) onto lands that have free flowing water and be able to fish those streams.

Lines have been drawn and there is so much emotion about the rights of access, I can’t help but think a little legislative action could solve the problem to allow access at a corner that now seems to be contested…

Stream access comes specifically from the constitution-
All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for beneficial uses as provided by law."

And landowners still argue that was an unlawful takings.

 

[R.K.]

Stream access comes specifically from the constitution-
All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for beneficial uses as provided by law."

And landowners still argue that was an unlawful takings.

Because they think they own the “land” The water flows over. See Colorado, for example.