Forest Service Issues ‘E-Bike’ Guidance

[BearLakeHunter]

In motorized use areas with motorized routes, use whatever size motor you want.

In those areas where they aren't allowed, walk or take a horse.

Easy, simple, and nothing to argue about.

You are right that at face value it is easy, simple, and nothing to argue about. But when you look at it deeper there is a lot to argue about. Horses are waaaaaay more disruptive to the mountains than a two wheeled pedal assisted e-bike and it’s not even close.

 

[BuzzH]

Not arguing Buzz. Having a discussion… I purposely left the other thread once you entered. You are incapable of having a conversation like a civilized adult. I don’t know if you strive for admin status on this site or what your issue in life is, but you got issues man.

This site isn’t all about you. God help us all if you had any real authority in life.

I know what the rub is, you want access to areas where non-motorized travel is restricted.

Good luck with that.

Buy a horse or hiking boots, simple really.

 

[mxracer317]

I think the current method of drawing the line at a motor (or drawing the line at wheels in wilderness) makes more sense. Just my opinion.

I think the current method of drawing the line at a motor (or drawing the line at wheels in wilderness) makes more sense. Just my opinion.

Yes, but one could say the ethics landscape of hunting is different now with gps, rangefinders, long range rifles. I am all for preserving the wilderness, but just don’t feel that peddling in has a detrimental effect. Just my opinion as well.

 

[Nameless Range]

You are right that at face value it is easy, simple, and nothing to argue about. But when you look at it deeper there is a lot to argue about. Horses are waaaaaay more disruptive to the mountains than a two wheeled pedal assisted e-bike and it’s not even close.

When it comes to disturbed-area-per-unit-time on the landscape methinks you are incorrect. When it comes to the sheer numbers of those who would be e-biking in the hills vs horseback riding, I think the difference becomes far greater.

Combine the two, and it is Disturbance - not ruts or piles of shit in trails - that is the crux. That’s what displaces and effects wildlife most negatively in this Age of Recreation.

There’s also a big difference between established use on the landscape vs injecting new ones with throttles.

When you’re in a hole…..

 

[BuzzH]

You are right that at face value it is easy, simple, and nothing to argue about. But when you look at it deeper there is a lot to argue about. Horses are waaaaaay more disruptive to the mountains than a two wheeled pedal assisted e-bike and it’s not even close.

I disagree. Horses have been acceptable mode of transportation in various FS plans, travel route planning, and the wilderness act.

Motorized routes have their place...like 380,000 miles of existing roads you can use motorized access on FS lands.

 

[mxracer317]

I know what the rub is, you want access to areas where non-motorized travel is restricted.

Good luck with that.

Buy a horse or hiking boots, simple really.

I’m actually grateful that it’s not up to you, like you want it to be. Simple, really.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m actually grateful that it’s not up to you, like you want it to be. Simple, really.

Well now, mxracer317, that's where you're wrong...while you whine, I advocate.

See how that works? The FS has deemed e-bikes as motorized...I win, simple, really.

 

[rjthehunter]

Hey everyone, don't you know the buzzard is always right? His way or the highway. He's not loosing this one.

He's never been wrong, just ask him!!!

 

[mxracer317]

Well now, mxracer317, that's where you're wrong...while you whine, I advocate.

See how that works? The FS has deemed e-bikes as motorized...I win, simple, really.

Everything you touch turns toxic. If that’s your way of advocating… I welcome any input you feel free to add without belittling or demeaning others on this site.

 

[BuzzH]

Hey everyone, don't you know the buzzard is always right? His way or the highway. He's not loosing this one.

He's never been wrong, just ask him!!!

Ask the FS if Ebikes are considered motorized...don't take my word for it.

 

[rjthehunter]

Well now, mxracer317, that's where you're wrong...while you whine, I advocate.

See how that works? The FS has deemed e-bikes as motorized...I win, simple, really.

Dude you're the pinicle of whine culture. You whine about everything. Whether you "advocate" or not, this is an online forum. Your arguing with everyone is appreciated by no one but gh.

 

[BearLakeHunter]

I know what the rub is, you want access to areas where non-motorized travel is restricted.

Good luck with that.

Buy a horse or hiking boots, simple really.

I know what my rub is and it’s that banning a “motorized vehicle” simply because it has a motor without any regard for the other significant details of that motorized vehicle makes zero sense. Especially when you compare that to the non-motorized methods of travel such as horses and the damage they can and will do to a trail system. Just to be clear, I use neither of these methods in most of my time in the hills. I am just wanting to point out some views that I believe are a bit hypocritical when considering a true conservation standpoint. If limiting access is the goal then I would be very inclined to side with the pedal assisted e-bikes and ban the horses.

 

[BuzzH]

I know what my rub is and it’s that banning a “motorized vehicle” simply because it has a motor without any regard for the other significant details of that motorized vehicle makes zero sense. Especially when you compare that to the non-motorized methods of travel such as horses and the damage they can and will do to a trail system. Just to be clear, I use neither of these methods in most of my time in the hills. I am just wanting to point out some views that I believe are a bit hypocritical when considering a true conservation standpoint. If limiting access is the goal then I would be very inclined to side with the pedal assisted e-bikes and ban the horses.

Motorized vehicles, electric or internal combustion, should be banned from areas that are non motorized, wouldn't you agree?

If you read any forest plan, travel plan, wilderness act, etc. you'll quickly find that non motorized areas are almost all open to foot traffic and horses, mules, etc, for all kinds of reasons already mentioned.

I also contend that the level of commitment it takes to own horses, mules, llamas, etc. very much limits access more than charging a battery on an e-bike or filling a fuel tank with hydrocarbons.

 

[mxracer317]

Well now, mxracer317, that's where you're wrong...while you whine, I advocate.

See how that works? The FS has deemed e-bikes as motorized...I win, simple, really.

You “win”? No bro, you lose because rather than being someone that can contribute something in a positive way, you seek to tear down others to put your perspective always at the top.

Didn’t your mom tell you that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar growing up?

I saw your humble, not humble brag about how busy you are over on the other thread I left (to escape you). Here is a little tip for a busy and important man such as yourself… treat others with respect and you’ll see that you go much further in life.

It’s not all about you “winning” bro.

 

[BuzzH]

You “win”? No bro, you lose because rather than being someone that can contribute something in a positive way, you seek to tear down others to put your perspective always at the top.

Didn’t your mom tell you that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar growing up?

I saw your humble, not humble brag about how busy you are over on the other thread I left (to escape you). Here is a little tip for a busy and important man such as yourself… treat others with respect and you’ll see that you go much further in life.

It’s not all about you “winning” bro.

Its about winning for what's best for wildlife and keeping secure habitat without motorized disturbance...

Yes, it is about winning, without winning, wildlife loses, just the fact of the matter.

 

[BearLakeHunter]

When it comes to disturbed-area-per-unit-time on the landscape methinks you are incorrect. When it comes to the sheer numbers of those who would be e-biking in the hills vs horseback riding, I think the difference becomes far greater.

Combine the two, and it is Disturbance - not ruts or piles of shit in trails - that is the crux. That’s what displaces and effects wildlife most negatively in this Age of Recreation.

There’s also a big difference between established use on the landscape vs injecting new ones with throttles.

When you’re in a hole…..

You very well may be correct that more people would use e-bikes than say horses which would increase disturbance.

You are also correct about established use vs new use. New use is almost always more difficult, but I would argue that just because one is established doesn’t always mean it is healthy and shouldn’t be changed.

 

[mxracer317]

Its about winning for what's best for wildlife and keeping secure habitat without motorized disturbance...

Yes, it is about winning, without winning, wildlife loses, just the fact of the matter.

Buzz, seriously man, I’d invite to to sit down and have a come to Jesus talk with yourself about the way you go at things, namely how you treat other people on this forum.

It’s like you have this personal animosity with yourself and you take it out on others in the name of wildlife?

Super happy your that pumped on conservation, but fyi, many of us are too. Working together towards a goal should be the name of the game. It’s not about putting down others, belittling and demeaning that helps wildlife win.

Coming at you in full sincerity man, I suggest you’d enjoy your life more if you came at things a different way.

 

[rogerthat]

You very well may be correct that more people would use e-bikes than say horses which would increase disturbance.

You are also correct about established use vs new use. New use is almost always more difficult, but I would argue that just because one is established doesn’t always mean it is healthy and shouldn’t be changed.

So are you saying get rid of horses? Or swap them for e-bikes?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, seriously man, I’d invite to to sit down and have a come to Jesus talk with yourself about the way you go at things, namely how you treat other people on this forum.

It’s like you have this personal animosity with yourself and you take it out on others in the name of wildlife?

Super happy your that pumped on conservation, but fyi, many of us are too. Working together towards a goal should be the name of the game. It’s not about putting down others, belittling and demeaning that helps wildlife win.

Coming at you in full sincerity man, I suggest you’d enjoy your life more if you came at things a different way.

You don't get it.

There is nothing left for "compromise" when it comes to securing wildlife habitat.

Go look at a map sometime. We've "compromised" the living chit out of wildlife habitat, to the point that things like legalizing motorized ebikes will have huge and negative impacts.

Wildlife can't afford to be compromising anymore.

If you're "super pumped" about conservation, then understand sometimes you're just going to have to be happy with using your toys on the existing part of the NF system that allows it. It's not like you don't, literally, have 380,000 miles of open roads and motorized trails to use. Don't expect others to open what little is left, wide open just to make you happy.

Its ok to leave some areas secured for wildlife so they have a sporting chance at just being viable on public lands.

 

[BearLakeHunter]

Motorized vehicles, electric or internal combustion, should be banned from areas that are non motorized, wouldn't you agree?

If you read any forest plan, travel plan, wilderness act, etc. you'll quickly find that non motorized areas are almost all open to foot traffic and horses, mules, etc, for all kinds of reasons already mentioned.

I also contend that the level of commitment it takes to own horses, mules, llamas, etc. very much limits access more than charging a battery on an e-bike or filling a fuel tank with hydrocarbons.

As the laws currently stand, I believe you are correct, but I think the law could use a little tweaking. I don’t agree that a pedal assisted e-bike should be in the same category as an internal combustion dirt bike.