Fixing social security

[VikingsGuy]

I don’t cherry pick, I don’t believe any of it. My point is that it’s a slippery slope to invoke the Bible. And your opponents will quote what they need to. It happens all the time throughout history, such as during slavery times. To the financial point, I agree with you for the most part. Society needs a back-up system in place.

Let's be clear. I specifically reserved that reference for those with faith - I don't expect it to motivate others such as yourself. And let's also be clear, you did cherry pick - you even admitted it as such. And while I agree with you the faithful (and now apparently those without faith) can resort to cherry picking, I do not know a single christian who can with a straight face claim that a "bootstrap" narrative is the big theme of the gospels. So, I stand by my point - if you believe then you need to find compassion in your heart. And, if you don't believe I still think compassion is a virtue worth having.

 

[406dn]

Regarding faith, many if not most are Cafeteria Christians of one sort or another.

There are even preachers preaching the prosperity gospel, that is God wants his faithful to be wealthy. It works really well for some of the preachers.

There is a segment of society that senses some obligation to their fellow citizens and a segment that does not sense that. That is the crux of most of the debate around these sort of issues.

I feel blessed that during my lifetime, I made pretty good money, with no lengthy interruptions. Many blue collar workers have numerous interruptions during their working career. That will put a hurt on getting ahead. Some will say, chose another path. Most of the time, they are on the best path they have come across. Good jobs are highly coveted. When you don't land one of those, it is on to plan B or C.

I do think that when push comes to shove, changes will be made to continue SS into the future.

 

[noharleyyet]

Regarding faith, many if not most are Cafeteria Christians of one sort or another.

There are even preachers preaching the prosperity gospel, that is God wants his faithful to be wealthy. It works really well for some of the preachers.

There is a segment of society that senses some obligation to their fellow citizens and a segment that does not sense that. That is the crux of most of the debate around these sort of issues.

I feel blessed that during my lifetime, I made pretty good money, with no lengthy interruptions. Many blue collar workers have numerous interruptions during their working career. That will put a hurt on getting ahead. Some will say, chose another path. Most of the time, they are on the best path they have come across. Good jobs are highly coveted. When you don't land one of those, it is on to plan B or C.

I do think that when push comes to shove, changes will be made to continue SS into the future.

Let's be honest...the best path to prosperity, aside from connections and a sheepskin pedigree, is nepotism. But unless it comes with a treasury full of eff you dough, you better damn sure be trained (prepared) to keep the revenue stream flowing.

 

[406dn]

Let's be honest...the best path to prosperity, aside from connections and a sheepskin pedigree, is nepotism. But unless it comes with a treasury full of eff you dough, you better damn sure be trained (prepared) to keep the revenue stream flowing.

Yeah, I had to go to plan B.

 

[406dn]

Let's be honest...the best path to prosperity, aside from connections and a sheepskin pedigree, is nepotism. But unless it comes with a treasury full of eff you dough, you better damn sure be trained (prepared) to keep the revenue stream flowing.

More seriously, the beneficiaries of nepotism are often pretty clueless how significantly it has helped them.

 

[noharleyyet]

More seriously, the beneficiaries of nepotism are often pretty clueless how significantly it has helped them.

No doubt...

 

[Cornbread]

I dont disagree with your sentiment or logic.

What do you do with the people on the streets though? Not everyone can be "successful" and/or especially responsible. A UBI and less depts and employees to administer it is an argument (Milton Friedman's) but having nothing isn't going to be sustainable for society.

Ive heard that argument before. It kinda assumes that only a certain amount of financial security will ever make people happy. You are guaranteed a minimum pension...at somebody else's expense. I ask you: What kind of bad behavior does that reinforce permanently??? It lets that camel's nose under the tent. We're here already! What kind of bad behavior do you see? And what is the first tendancy? If I could get $500/mo out of the bastards, why shouldn't I try for $1,000??? Where does it end? And eventually all of society is taken down in bankruptcy. That may happen in 5 years my friend. It is closer than you think. Then nobody has anything. ok, that worked well. we moved to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Cornbread]

Do you honestly think there’s a whole lot of extra pay in law-enforcement, fire departments or EMS?

Depending on the state, the pensions are sinking some states. California for one. Some prison gaurds have retired on $250,000-300,000 a year in pension. Probably Illinois, Penna, NY, MI, to name a few. Maybe the slary isn't that high but pensions and medical benefits are out of control.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Ive heard that argument before. It kinda assumes that only a certain amount of financial security will ever make people happy. You are guaranteed a minimum pension...at somebody else's expense. I ask you: What kind of bad behavior does that reinforce permanently??? It lets that camel's nose under the tent. We're here already! What kind of bad behavior do you see? And what is the first tendancy? If I could get $500/mo out of the bastards, why shouldn't I try for $1,000??? Where does it end? And eventually all of society is taken down in bankruptcy. That may happen in 5 years my friend. It is closer than you think. Then nobody has anything. ok, that worked well. we moved to the lowest common denominator.

Spoken like a true man of the people - you should run for office.

 

[BigHornRam]

Depending on the state, the pensions are sinking some states. California for one. Some prison gaurds have retired on $250,000-300,000 a year in pension. Probably Illinois, Penna, NY, MI, to name a few. Maybe the slary isn't that high but pensions and medical benefits are out of control.

The Bitterroot is a popular place for retired California firemen with nice pensions. Interesting that most of them leave high tax states like California and New York once they retire, instead of continuing to pay taxes and support businesses in the state they earned a living in. That ponzi scheme won't end well either. California, Illinois, and New York are in serious financial trouble.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

That ponzi scheme won't end well either. California, Illinois, and New York are in serious financial trouble.

um... no

They are expensive because their economies are doing incredibly well. California is what it is not because of evil liberal policies, but because it is literally one of the most successful economies on the planet. A few boomers moving to Montana is literally a drop in the bucket.

 

[406dn]

The Bitterroot is a popular place for retired California firemen with nice pensions. Interesting that most of them leave high tax states like California and New York once they retire, instead of continuing to pay taxes and support businesses in the state they earned a living in. That ponzi scheme won't end well either. California, Illinois, and New York are in serious financial trouble.

First, if you believe the $250k to $350k/ year pension, I've got a fixer up bridge in Baltimore to sell you. Second, everyone has the right to relocate after they retire. Many people to it for reasons important to them.

When I look up bond ratings by states the only one with a poor rating is Illinois. New York and California have credit ratings comparable to most states. The state with the most debt, compared to their GDP is Kentucky. I'd link the sources, but I found them on my phone, while typing on my laptop.

 

[BigHornRam]

um... no

They are expensive because their economies are doing incredibly well. California is what it is not because of evil liberal policies, but because it is literally one of the most successful economies on the planet. A few boomers moving to Montana is literally a drop in the bucket.

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Newsom Wants To Add $6.4 Billion To California’s $1.6 Trillion Debt With Proposition 1

California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries.

www.hoover.org

"California is losing businesses and taxpayers to other states, and at rates that have accelerated since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. To put California’s losses in perspective, since February 2020—the last month before COVID-related shutdowns took hold—California lost roughly 366,000 jobs, while the US gained about 5.4 million jobs in the same period. Because of the loss of population and businesses and because of irresponsible budgeting, California now faces a $58 billion state budget deficit in the 2024–25 fiscal year, and deficits of about $30 billion after that."

 

[VikingsGuy]

um... no

They are expensive because their economies are doing incredibly well. California is what it is not because of evil liberal policies, but because it is literally one of the most successful economies on the planet. A few boomers moving to Montana is literally a drop in the bucket.

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I think it is an 'AND'. Wildly successful economies are driving price escalation in housing etc, which in theory markets will respond to an be a somewhat moderating effect over time. AND a wildly progressive approach on how to spend the windfall from the successful economy - the book is still out as to whether this approach tanks the economy that funds it, successfully balances the winning economy with social needs, or whether all a side show and the economy plods along in spite of the political circus but little good comes from the show.

 

[406dn]

Newsom Wants To Add $6.4 Billion To California’s $1.6 Trillion Debt With Proposition 1

California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries.

www.hoover.org

"California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries."

His proposed spending raises their debt by 0.4% hardly a needle mover.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Newsom Wants To Add $6.4 Billion To California’s $1.6 Trillion Debt With Proposition 1

California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries.

www.hoover.org

""California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries."

Germany's is 2.754 T

California isn't Montana.

 

[BigHornRam]

First, if you believe the $250k to $350k/ year pension, I've got a fixer up bridge in Baltimore to sell you. Second, everyone has the right to relocate after they retire. Many people to it for reasons important to them.

When I look up bond ratings by states the only one with a poor rating is Illinois. New York and California have credit ratings comparable to most states. The state with the most debt, compared to their GDP is Kentucky. I'd link the sources, but I found them on my phone, while typing on my laptop.

I don't believe $250k to $350k pensions, but based on the houses they were buying pre covid, it is comfortable. People can move away from high tax states, that's human nature. Going to be a big problem going forward however. I've heard Kentucky is a fiscal train wreck. Plenty of other states are as well.

 

[BigHornRam]

Germany's is 2.754 T

California isn't Montana.

Funny you mention Germany...

Germany struggles to fix its pension system – DW – 03/15/2024

Germany's aging population is putting the country's pension system under strain. There are new plans to make the pension system sustainable, but critics say they won't work.

www.dw.com

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think it is an 'AND'. Wildly successful economies are driving price escalation in housing etc, which in theory markets will respond to an be a somewhat moderating effect over time. AND a wildly progressive approach on how to spend the windfall from the successful economy - the book is still out as to whether this approach tanks the economy that funds it, successfully balances the winning economy with social needs, or whether all a side show and the economy plods along in spite of the political circus but little good comes from the show.

I don't disagree with that, but folks want to act like a state with 40 Million people can be run like Mayberry.

A city like LA can't exist with everyone having leach fields, there own private drives, no public transit, yada yada yada

Seems like 95% of the "liberal" policies people complain about are literally just the necessary features of a densely populated area.

 

[SAJ-99]

Newsom Wants To Add $6.4 Billion To California’s $1.6 Trillion Debt With Proposition 1

California’s state and local government debt is roughly $1.6 trillion, which includes a proper accounting of the state’s unfunded liabilities. To put this in perspective, this works out to about $125,000 of debt per California household and exceeds the annual GDP of all but 13 countries.

www.hoover.org

"California is losing businesses and taxpayers to other states, and at rates that have accelerated since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. To put California’s losses in perspective, since February 2020—the last month before COVID-related shutdowns took hold—California lost roughly 366,000 jobs, while the US gained about 5.4 million jobs in the same period. Because of the loss of population and businesses and because of irresponsible budgeting, California now faces a $58 billion state budget deficit in the 2024–25 fiscal year, and deficits of about $30 billion after that."

I don't think Montana can go bragging about its fiscal situation. Its funded status is middle of the pack. Every state has the same problem to varying degrees. The pensions are in the same situation as SS. The bigger problem remains healthcare cost. I also note that the author of the Hoover article didn't have any suggestions on solutions, just "no more debt". That always sounds so easy. I hope he doesn't tear a rotator cuff patting himself on the back.