Marshian
Well-known member
In reference to the “Eve of Destruction” thread, what would be your preferred, primary way to change social security, if you want it changed at all? Feel free to comment why you voted how you did.
Fixing social security
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Forkyfinder
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Pushing the age up and eliminating or dramatically raising the cap would do a lot...
Something needs to be done - the system and math don't pencil at the growth rates of receivers and payers.
Something needs to be done - the system and math don't pencil at the growth rates of receivers and payers.
Nick87
Well-known member
Doesn't matter what I'd like it's not gonna be fixed anytime in my lifetime, act accordingly.
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Doublecluck
Well-known member
Exactly! Gov wasn’t there for me in the beginning of my life, not counting on them to be there for me in the end of it. Pay off your house and buy a nice life Insurance policy and hope to go by grizz or lightning strike early so the little woman is taken care of.
I'm taking the load data with me though. mtmuley
cgasner1
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I’d settle for I don’t get anything and you quit taking from me
belshawelk
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lesser Ponzi schemes have landed people in jail
peterk1234
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I'd happily take what I paid into it and what my business paid into it on my behalf (which I owned) interest free.
Also, here is a novel idea. Stop robbing it. And instead of funding crap like monies paid to Ukrainian oligarchs, pay back to SS all the f'n money you stole. Problem solved.
Also, here is a novel idea. Stop robbing it. And instead of funding crap like monies paid to Ukrainian oligarchs, pay back to SS all the f'n money you stole. Problem solved.
Forkyfinder
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Did Congress Steal Trillions From Social Security? The Answer Might Surprise You | The Motley Fool
Did lawmakers really steal your hard-earned income?
www.fool.com
geetar
Well-known member
Reforming anything of this nature would take people on both sides working together and also giving up whatever insider pocket lining advantages they have so I don't see it getting fixed. I'm with Gomer. Give me my money back. No interest required and I'll do my own retirement.
peterk1234
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Right. If it's on the internet and if the government tells us it's untrue, then it's gospel. Sorry, at this point in my life I don't believe shit. I will stick with my gut, which has rarely led me astray in my 57 years in this planet.Did Congress Steal Trillions From Social Security? The Answer Might Surprise You | The Motley Fool
Did lawmakers really steal your hard-earned income?
It's funny you mention that. About 10 years ago, when I was about to retire, I ran through an exercise to see what rate of return I would have needed to receive over the 40+ years I paid into the system to get the payment I was promised. I counted my actual contributions and also my employer contributions over my 40+ work history. I believe I calculated that I would have needed a 13% rate of return over those 40 years to get a payment from 66 to my expected mortality. That's what amazed me. I think my employer & my contributions totaled around $300,000. I remember seeing something how the first woman that collected from social security only contributed $100 but because she lived pretty long had collected thousands of dollars in benefits, even accounting for the time value of money. Do we have any actuaries on here? I think most people are astonished. Benefits far outweigh contributions.
I also ran through a basic calculation to see if it matter whether I retired at 62 or 66.5, my full retirement age. It doesn't, otherwise the system would be incredibly unstable, even more than it is because benefits are so outsized. The actuaries make sure that you are roughly economically indifferent. Benefits for the whole are outsized because it's another handout from Congress. They own us.
That article is total bullshit. The SS system reserves are in Treasury bonds!! Taking out of one pocket to put in the other pocket! THERE IS NO TRUST FUND. It's an accounting entry, cash in and cash out. And, I believe that when they calculate your benefit when you retire, you only get credit for the earnings you paid the FICA taxes on. So it is a myth that somehow rich people are getting a free benefit funded by "the common man". Top monthly benefits have a limit. Actuaries could confirm that, but I believe that is my understanding of how benefits are calculated. My actuary buddy died last June 24, RIP at 62. One of the problems is that there is a minimum benefit of close to $1000 a month. And, SSI has been taped by a bunch of homeless and drug addicts, all allowed by the politicians. There are so many falsities that the public believes.
Between you and your employer, 12.4% is put in SSI on your behalf.
For easy numbers, let’s say you average $100k salary over 40 years.
That’s $12.4k/yr. If invested in Index Funds/ETFs we can say that it will grow 8% annually.
In a 40 year career, you’d have accumulated over $3.7 Million dollars in investments.
It’s considered safe to with draw 4% annually to avoid drawing down the principle.
This would allow you to draw $151k a year and die with that $3.7 million still in your account.
I haven’t checked the SSI calculator for the same $100k income, but it’s not paying you $151k/yr and leaving you with just <$4 million to give to your kids.
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They've basically turned social security into another welfare program, just like Medicare. The middle class is in denial, but it is absolutely true. High income people get screwed royally.
You are not accounting for mortality. And that adds considerable complexity. Also wives get a survivor benefit. And drug addicts get SSI. And there is an inflation adjustment in the benefit. It is not so simplistic.
And I can think of a 16 yr period where stocks didn't do shit. They were flat for 16 years while benefits get paid out. This is a huge drain. And SS is paid monthly, not annually.
Marshian
Well-known member
If you think high income people are screwed royally now, you’re not gonna like the way the poll results are trending. Removing the upper pay-in will greatly magnify that. One could say it changes SS from an earned benefit or entitlement to full on retirement welfare.
