Federal Land Sales for Affordable Housing?

[Gulf of America]

Let’s follow this to its logical conclusion:

Why would the feds charge less?

The same reason everybody loves to hate the government. The government doesn't exist to make a profit, and when they try they suck at it. The same reason prices for goods and labor are inflated over market value in every government contract and like Beignet alluded to, but you somehow completely missed the point of, every lease and thing they sell is below market value.

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

I think some people here are underestimating the amount of money that exists in foreign countries, including those who would love to buy large chunks of what is still known as "America." It's been happening for a while now in the real estate markets. Anyone who can afford to pay Phil Mickleson $200M just for showing up isn't going to flinch at the cost of an entire national forest or park.

In a related story - could someone please take a look at the first two line items in the proposed 2026 president's budget and explain to me where $5.72B of our tax dollars are about to go? "support some of America’s most enduring and critical partners such as India and Jordan;".... "to support U.S. national security and AmericanDevelopment Finance Corporation interests through billions in loans..."

Huh?

 

[Treeshark]

I think some people here are underestimating the amount of money that exists in foreign countries

You make a good point. I do think selling a National Park to China may have some political ramifications, however…

 

[Justabirdwatcher]

You make a good point. I do think selling a National Park to China may have some political ramifications, however…

It won't be "to China." It will be to an "investment group"

 

[noharleyyet]

It won't be "to China." It will be to an "investment group"...chaired very publicly by Taylor Sheridan

 

[SAJ-99]

why do you assume they would all make the decision to liquidate everything?

The reason is simple...money. The Federal government spends about $6b on fire fighting and suppression (varies by year). Let's do some very simple math and divide that by the total Federally-held 650 million acres. We get $9/acre. Now take that number and times it by the number of acres held in a state. WY for example, owns about 30m acres. So that cost to the state would be $270m/yr. Divide that by the WY population of 600k people and the price is over $450/yr/person. You think a family of 4 in WY is going to pay $2000/yr to go camping on the weekends? WY Governor asked for more funds for the fire budget and it got reduced. Voters are cheap (and/or poor) and don't want to pay for anything. Half of them just want to make sure they get their check from the government every month.

Currently, most Federal land is in the West, while most tax-payers are in East. So Easterners are subsidizing that land. Also, I know the argument that revenues (leases on O&G, grazing, timber) from Federal land pay for the management, which is why I just used the fire cost. I think that gives a cleaner representation of the cost that would be transferred to the state, but I would guess others have better numbers.

The next 4 years is dedicated to rebuilding the Robber Barons era, where the workers should be happy to have jobs and the rich measure themselves against each other and try to die with the most. The voters who don't think so are fooling themselves. But those same voters are also avoiding the concept of working for 40yrs and retiring with a nest egg, probably because they watched their parents get laid off multiple times. Instead they are trying to "scam the system" with meme coins and meme stocks.

 

[Beignet]

I dug. I’m back.

This is all very dependent on political timing. I don’t think this is going to happen within the next three years to any sort of catastrophic scale. I sense change will soon follow.

Not sure anyone believes that it'd be one big sale of federally owned public lands all at once. Or even one big transfer to the states.

But, how much liquidation are you willing to accept in the next three or whatever years? What precedent would it establish for the future? Do you think the federal government is would cut off a source of revenue after they've written it into law and had it flowing for a bit?

Are we just selling tiny parcels to developers for affordable housing? Full transfer to states? Can the states liquidate to the Chinese or whomever? Whole national forests? Sell Yellowstone NP to a Saudi sovereign wealth fund? Perhaps make it a public/private partnership with a Spanish firm like Cintra? Frig it, maybe sell the whole state of Alaska to the Carlyle Group?

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

The reason is simple...money. The Federal government spends about $6b on fire fighting and suppression (varies by year). Let's do some very simple math and divide that by the total Federally-held 650 million acres. We get $9/acre. Now take that number and times it by the number of acres held in a state. WY for example, owns about 30m acres. So that cost to the state would be $270m/yr. Divide that by the WY population of 600k people and the price is over $450/yr/person. You think a family of 4 in WY is going to pay $2000/yr to go camping on the weekends? WY Governor asked for more funds for the fire budget and it got reduced. Voters are cheap (and/or poor) and don't want to pay for anything. Half of them just want to make sure they get their check from the government every month.

2023 Wyoming Coal Mining State, Local and Fed Revenues
Federal Royalties paid = $216.M
Severance Tax = $185M
Ad Val Prod Tax = $167M
AML Fee = $25M
State Land Rent and Royalties = $25M

No idea what O&G info is but its huge. Might be other ways to fund fire fighting than charging those cheap, gov titty sucking Wyoming families to go camping.

 

[SAJ-99]

2023 Wyoming Coal Mining State, Local and Fed Revenues
Federal Royalties paid = $216.M
Severance Tax = $185M
Ad Val Prod Tax = $167M
AML Fee = $25M
State Land Rent and Royalties = $25M

No idea what O&G info is but its huge. Might be other ways to fund fire fighting than charging those cheap, gov titty sucking Wyoming families to go camping.

Great numbers, but I assume that money is already allocated to other things. Otherwise the Governor wouldn't have asked for money to replenish the fire fund.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Great numbers, but I assume that money is already allocated to other things.

Yes it is. About 43-47% of Federal Royalties generated from Wyo are returned to Wyo. A huge part of why some would like Fed land to be granted back to the States.

 

[Straight Arrow]

... Fed land to be granted back to the States.

Fed land never belonged to the states ... so cannot grant back to the states.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Federal Revenue (Taxes, Royalties, fees) from Natural Resource Production in Wyo CY 2019 = $1.24B.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Fed land never belonged to the states ... so cannot grant back to the states.

You are correct. My mistake, if not my intent.

 

[Hunting Wife]

It won't be "to China." It will be to an "investment group"

Exactly this.

Timber Investment Management Organization (TIMO): Overview

A Timber Investment Management Organization (TIMO) is a management group that aids institutional investors in managing their timberland investments.

www.investopedia.com

12 Tips for Investing in Commercial Land

Want to know how commercial land investors make the best decisions when buying vacant land? Discover 12 tips to help you invest wisely.

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[SAJ-99]

Yes it is. About 43-47% of Federal Royalties generated from Wyo are returned to Wyo. A huge part of why some would like Fed land to be granted back to the States.

It seems you are sane-washing this plan like the rest of the Western states. Americans in the East might have a problem with those states keeping the good parts and then begging the Federal government for money when there is a downturn in commodity prices or a bad fire season that blows up the budget, which we know has happened and will again.