Extreme hunting pressure in region 7.

[sapperJ24]

Oh yeah, totally different subjects. No way I'm jumping into a debate on whether a 4.5yo MD buck's sperm is better at impregnating a doe than a 2.5yo MD buck's. Seems like rabbit hole I don't want to go down and will let the internet experts take care of that.
it doesn't seem to matter much with humans.

Not to bring this thread back around to here, but in elk there is some evidence that bull age can impact recruitment. The sperms are likely equally potent, so no debate there. No idea if this carries over to mule deer as well.

B&C has a summary of the elk work here. https://www.boone-crockett.org/elk-reproduction-improved-mature-bulls

Their highlights include:

• Shorter breeding periods mean that most calves are born about the same time. Many prey species rely on synchronous births to swamp predators and thus reduce the effect of predation on survival of young.
• Earlier conception results in earlier birth dates, thereby providing calves more time to grow before winter. The additional growth may increase their survival during winter.

Edit. This survey has little relevance to wild populations or mule deer.

 

[brockel]

Kinda seems like a natural migration of pressure really

I don’t know if it’s migration of pressure or just growing of pressure. The Custer is still being pounded

 

[DFS]

Favorable weather, average harvest rates, mature antelope spell successful antelope opener in southeast Montana

MILES CITY – Hunters out and about for this weekend’s opener of antelope rifle season were reportedly happy with favorable weather, harvest rates close to average and a good ratio of mature animals.

This was according to crews collecting biological data at three check stations at Hysham, Broadus and Mosby in southeast Montana on Sunday.

Hysham check station

The crew checked 131 parties and 215 hunters. Harvest rates included 114 antelope (96 bucks and 18 does), which is at the 10-year average of 115.

Seventy percent of the bucks harvested at the Hysham check station were aged by FWP staff to be older than three years, indicating that hunters were able to select older age class antelope bucks.

Sixty-eight percent of hunters reported a harvest, which is about 8 percent below average for opening weekend.

Other game animals checked included one mule deer buck, 155 pheasants, 44 sharp-tailed grouse, three Hungarian partridge and eight ducks of various species.

Broadus check station

At Broadus the weather was beautiful all weekend with highs in the 60s and 70s. Most hunters were satisfied with their outing and had an opportunity to fill a license. A total of 179 hunters (in 94 parties) came through, with an overall harvest success rate of 63 percent.

The majority of hunters were pursuing pronghorn, but one sharp-tailed grouse, two Hungarian partridge and three turkeys were also taken. Pronghorn harvest consisted of 126 total, with 91 bucks and 35 does.

Mosby check station

Opening weekend of antelope rifle season was a beautiful weekend to be out in the field. The Mosby station saw lots of happy hunters. Biologists visited with 111 hunters, who saw a high harvest success rate of 69 percent. This is very similar to previous years.

Of the antelope biologists checked at the check station, 62 were male and seven were female. More than half of the bucks harvested were 4.5 years or older. Hunters reported having good opportunity for harvesting an antelope.

Many hunters came through with birds as well and reported seeing high numbers of game birds while afield. Biologists checked turkeys, pheasants, sharp-tailed grouse and Hungarian partridges.

FWP recommends that you double-check your antelope license before heading to the field. The antelope licenses have changed this year in Region 7. Either-sex license number 007-21 and antlerless license number 007-31 are only valid north of the Yellowstone River, while either-sex license number 007-20 and antlerless license number 007-30 are only valid south of the Yellowstone River.

Also, remember that the 705-30 antlerless license is only valid in deer/elk hunting district 705. It is always a good idea to double-check your license number and the hunting regulations before heading to the field.

Happy hunters and old animals.

 

[Treeshark]

That is a rosier picture of the 2024 pronghorn hunt than I would have anticipated.

 

[SAJ-99]

Not to bring this thread back around to here, but in elk there is some evidence that bull age can impact recruitment. The sperms are likely equally potent, so no debate there. No idea if this carries over to mule deer as well.

B&C has a summary of the elk work here. https://www.boone-crockett.org/elk-reproduction-improved-mature-bulls

Their highlights include:

• Shorter breeding periods mean that most calves are born about the same time. Many prey species rely on synchronous births to swamp predators and thus reduce the effect of predation on survival of young.
• Earlier conception results in earlier birth dates, thereby providing calves more time to grow before winter. The additional growth may increase their survival during winter.

 

[WanderWoman]

Not to bring this thread back around to here, but in elk there is some evidence that bull age can impact recruitment. The sperms are likely equally potent, so no debate there. No idea if this carries over to mule deer as well.

B&C has a summary of the elk work here. https://www.boone-crockett.org/elk-reproduction-improved-mature-bulls

Their highlights include:

• Shorter breeding periods mean that most calves are born about the same time. Many prey species rely on synchronous births to swamp predators and thus reduce the effect of predation on survival of young.
• Earlier conception results in earlier birth dates, thereby providing calves more time to grow before winter. The additional growth may increase their survival during winter.

The later Noyes paper is the one I read. They had an enclosed population of elk and harvested all the bulls except yearlings and let them grow to 5 years, then went in each year and from a sample of harvested cows, estimated conception date.

They accounted for lactation status, cow body condition (which is tied to lactation status) and bull age in their model, and those three variables explained just 28% of the variation in conception date. 79% of that was explained by lactation status alone, with body condition and male age accounting for the remainder. So, in a “controlled,” somewhat captive setting, male age accounted for less than 21% of 28% of the variation in conception date.

They mention cow age in the paper but only in relation to pregnancy status and not conception date. Older cows I believe come into estrus earlier, and if cow age affects estrus, that should be accounted for. I would think estrus and those dates would significantly impact conception too.

They also recorded the highest variation in conception date with yearlings doing 100% of the breeding, which does not happen in the wild. The overall ranges in their conception dates between age classes differed by 8-9 days on the mean dates/50th percentiles, which again, thinking about wild populations and even those with healthy age classes of bulls, is not much of an effect.

To makes the leap that bull age class would impact conception enough to impact population dynamics they would need to also monitor calf parturition and growth during the summer/autumn and then overwinter survival, controlling for all other variables.

While all this is very interesting and seems to make sense, natural systems are more complex and from a management standpoint, managing for older age classes to narrow down the conception date window for the sake of improving recruitment probably won’t get you very far. And while elk certainly aren’t mule deer, having more of the “older” age classes means having many more males overall. Males which also may outcompete fawns and calves during the winter months.

I’m outside and my hands are cold so that’s my 2c. Hopefully this makes a little sense.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Favorable weather, average harvest rates, mature antelope spell successful antelope opener in southeast Montana

MILES CITY – Hunters out and about for this weekend’s opener of antelope rifle season were reportedly happy with favorable weather, harvest rates close to average and a good ratio of mature animals.

This was according to crews collecting biological data at three check stations at Hysham, Broadus and Mosby in southeast Montana on Sunday.

Hysham check station

The crew checked 131 parties and 215 hunters. Harvest rates included 114 antelope (96 bucks and 18 does), which is at the 10-year average of 115.

Seventy percent of the bucks harvested at the Hysham check station were aged by FWP staff to be older than three years, indicating that hunters were able to select older age class antelope bucks.

Sixty-eight percent of hunters reported a harvest, which is about 8 percent below average for opening weekend.

Other game animals checked included one mule deer buck, 155 pheasants, 44 sharp-tailed grouse, three Hungarian partridge and eight ducks of various species.

Broadus check station

At Broadus the weather was beautiful all weekend with highs in the 60s and 70s. Most hunters were satisfied with their outing and had an opportunity to fill a license. A total of 179 hunters (in 94 parties) came through, with an overall harvest success rate of 63 percent.

The majority of hunters were pursuing pronghorn, but one sharp-tailed grouse, two Hungarian partridge and three turkeys were also taken. Pronghorn harvest consisted of 126 total, with 91 bucks and 35 does.

Mosby check station

Opening weekend of antelope rifle season was a beautiful weekend to be out in the field. The Mosby station saw lots of happy hunters. Biologists visited with 111 hunters, who saw a high harvest success rate of 69 percent. This is very similar to previous years.

Of the antelope biologists checked at the check station, 62 were male and seven were female. More than half of the bucks harvested were 4.5 years or older. Hunters reported having good opportunity for harvesting an antelope.

Many hunters came through with birds as well and reported seeing high numbers of game birds while afield. Biologists checked turkeys, pheasants, sharp-tailed grouse and Hungarian partridges.

FWP recommends that you double-check your antelope license before heading to the field. The antelope licenses have changed this year in Region 7. Either-sex license number 007-21 and antlerless license number 007-31 are only valid north of the Yellowstone River, while either-sex license number 007-20 and antlerless license number 007-30 are only valid south of the Yellowstone River.

Also, remember that the 705-30 antlerless license is only valid in deer/elk hunting district 705. It is always a good idea to double-check your license number and the hunting regulations before heading to the field.

Happy hunters and old animals.

I wonder why they don’t ask public vs private harvest

 

[cgasner1]

I wonder why they don’t ask public vs private harvest

Last one I went thru she pulled up a iPad and asked me to select a area where i killed my buck at

 

[sapperJ24]

The later Noyes paper is the one I read. They had an enclosed population of elk and harvested all the bulls except yearlings, then went in and from a sample of harvested cows, estimated conception date.

They accounted for lactation status, cow body condition (which is tied to lactation status) and bull age in their model, and those three variables explained just 28% of the variation in conception date. 79% of that was explained by lactation status alone, with body condition and male age accounting for the remainder. So, in a “controlled,” somewhat captive setting, male age accounted for less than 21% of 28% of the variation in conception date.

They mention cow age in the paper but only in relation to pregnancy status and not conception date. Older cows I believe come into estrus earlier, and if cow age affects estrus, that should be accounted for. I would think estrus and those dates would significantly impact conception too.

They also recorded the highest variation in conception date with yearlings doing 100% of the breeding, which does not happen in the wild. The overall ranges in their conception dates between age classes differed by 8-9 days on the mean dates/50th percentiles, which again, thinking about wild populations and even those with healthy age classes of bulls, is not much of an effect.

To makes the leap that bull age class would impact conception enough to impact population dynamics they would need to also monitor calf parturition and growth during the summer/autumn and then overwinter survival, controlling for all other variables.

While all this is very interesting and seems to make sense, natural systems are more complex and from a management standpoint, managing for older age classes to narrow down the conception date window for the sake of improving recruitment probably won’t get you very far. And while elk certainly aren’t mule deer, having more of the “older” age classes means having many more males overall. Males which also may outcompete fawns and calves during the winter months.

I’m outside and my hands are cold so that’s my 2c. Hopefully this makes a little sense.

Thanks for taking the time to further explain the findings and their applicability to wild populations and mule deer, which is limited.

 

[DFS]

I wonder why they don’t ask public vs private harvest

I haven’t been through a game check in over 10 years. They don’t manage for land types public vs private.
Thats a very small sample size for the amount of tags issued. I would bet they are getting a bigger subset of private land hunters but who knows.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

Would GPS coordinates and a picture of harvest be FOIA-able? Would suck for entities like GoHunt and OnX to get their hands on it if so, but seems like there would be a lot of good info that could come out of something like that. I know we are all afraid of our “secret spots” being found and can’t trust our government officials with that data, so I’m not advocating for it. More just curious if there other states that do something like that?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Would GPS coordinates and a picture of harvest be FOIA-able? Would suck for entities like GoHunt and OnX to get their hands on it if so, but seems like there would be a lot of good info that could come out of something like that. I know we are all afraid of our “secret spots” being found and can’t trust our government officials with that data, so I’m not advocating for it. More just curious if there other states that do something like that?

The agency & the legislature both are very sensitive to giving out detailed information like that so they generally tend to want only a generic area in which harvest occurred rather than coordinates. MI's online portal for mandatory had that for the first year (drop a pin) thinking that it would be easy for folks to do that, but saving your buckhole became more important, so they just asked folks for a broader locate. MT has been trending more towards data privacy, which runs into constitutional issues for the public's right to know & participate in Gov't.

So - TLDR is MT doesn't provide that fine-scale info now, and the legislature likely would be mean to them if they did.

 

[SAJ-99]

Would GPS coordinates and a picture of harvest be FOIA-able?

FOIA is for federal agencies only. A state would have to have its own law on the books.

 

[INMT]

When I've submitted CWD samples in the past, the biologists asked for the coordinates of where the animal was killed. It's been a couple of years since I've submitted so not sure if they still ask.

 

[brockel]

Would GPS coordinates and a picture of harvest be FOIA-able? Would suck for entities like GoHunt and OnX to get their hands on it if so, but seems like there would be a lot of good info that could come out of something like that. I know we are all afraid of our “secret spots” being found and can’t trust our government officials with that data, so I’m not advocating for it. More just curious if there other states that do something like that?

FWP would have to want the data. Their cold calling and asking what district is as much as they care to have. Just ask them. Now the biologists I’ve talked to would love reporting like that

 

[corndog1]

In all my roaming on the hi line and portions of eastern Montana the worst behavior I observe is usually from the locals. "Oh I can drive out into that field I've known this family for years." Meaning the dude went to grade school with them.
Lots of beer cans and shooting from roads are usually locals also .

 

[huntin24/7]

In all my roaming on the hi line and portions of eastern Montana the worst behavior I observe is usually from the locals. "Oh I can drive out into that field I've known this family for years." Meaning the dude went to grade school with them.
Lots of beer cans and shooting from roads are usually locals also .

Agreed in regards to deer hunting. NR’s have a monopoly on that behavior in regards to bird hunting though.

 

[corndog1]

Agreed in regards to deer hunting. NR’s have a monopoly on that behavior in regards to bird hunting though.

All types of hunters in my experience. The locals know who's home and when. They know if an old rancher can't get around well anymore. They know the roads wardens patrol. NRs are usually cautious about where they are at but they sure shoot the shit out of mule deer fork horns.

 

[WanderWoman]

All types of hunters in my experience. The locals know who's home and when. They know if an old rancher can't get around well anymore. They know the roads wardens patrol. NRs are usually cautious about where they are at but they sure shoot the shit out of mule deer fork horns.

Shooting a fork horn isn’t illegal or unethical though. It’s a matter of personal preference. I’d rather see someone stoked about shooting a forky and have a good memory than someone who only cares about inches and not be grateful for their harvest. There’s a broad spectrum of hunters and what they’re after and as long as it’s legal, ethical, and fair chase, I opt to not pass judgement.

 

[corndog1]

Not judgemental. It is an observation.