The figures I quoted mentioned free room and board under the assumption your child enrolls while in high school. My son can do this and is enrolled in community college at no cost- these are paid by our county, but not all counties include this.
Evaluate the ROI on Education
- Thread starter JAG
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Would the trade school education totally replace the few years of general studies education they’d be receiving at a conventional high school? That could impact one’s “college readiness” post-trade school if they wanted to go that route.
SD_Prairie_Goat
Well-known member
Pto, retirement, health insurance, flex hours, etc are not guaranteed in the trades. In my experience before graduation all of those listed were not available unless you were part of the union and even then I don't think you get all of them, usually get one or two
I've only heard about them and my son is enrolled in one of these trades that yield an excellent future regarding pay, Welding. As a HS Junior, he already has his eyes set on the CWI certificate. After five (5) years of work experience, these certified welding inspectors are making about $120K in our area.
The stats I posted only include the first year's average pay regardless of the selected trade. I'm trying to find data that reflects the long-term averages, similar to the second post from brymoore above, but for HS/trade school graduates.
This data would be very helpful for the exercise of evaluating educational net gain.
The updated trade school model that re-framed the old model does not dismiss the general studies courses like it used to, but incorporates the core curriculum of English, Math, Science, etc. Here's a link to the features of this particular school: https://www.bcbe.org/Domain/7653.
This model is set up so that it still permits students a path that allows them to continue their academic future at a four-year college when they graduate HS.
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Yes! That's the same advice I give to my kids.
For additional clarity, I also tell them that if you later decide you don't want to practice as a nurse or engineer, you can still go get a job that the non-specific majors have access to.
For example, someone with a BSN can always go be a claims adjuster, real estate agent, financial advisor, life coach, but a Psychology major can't ever be a Nurse or an Engineer.
I'm still a little surprised at that development- not requiring a degree for IT or Cybersecurity. That field still seems magical to me because of my lack of strengths in that realm.
To your point, it is one of the specialties offered to high school/trade school students: Cybersecurity.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
With the reality of World today, hopefully they have him focus on the hardest stuff. The easy welding will largely be done by robots. Maybe pair it with skills to program or repair the robots?
Regarding the topic that some in the trades make over $100K, wouldn't it also be fair to state what the upper end of those with college degrees make? That number is certainly in the many hundreds of thousands per year if not millions per year.
As a teacher who frequently asks students what they plan on doing after high school, I get a mixed bag on traditional 4-year vs trade vs other. I will say, I can't tell you how many students the mindset have they're going to get into HVAC or welding, etc and their grades are AWFUL, primarily due to simply not completing the work. One of our local community colleges has even expressed concern over the gpa of some of the incoming freshman. They (and to a larger degree parents) fail to realize part of the point of school is learning how to learn. Will you use algebra in your future career? Maybe not, but that's not necessarily the point.
I will always advocate for students to do what they want in life, but many of them seem to have a false sense of the role their education plays in that.
I will always advocate for students to do what they want in life, but many of them seem to have a false sense of the role their education plays in that.
I also wonder how much of that delinquency is from students who got a bogus degree or a for-profit university and assumed they'd have a decent career? Biden still cancelled lot of that debt and fired up the money-printing machines.
Our economy has become inundated with a glut of college-educated people with degrees because they thought they were entitled to one or had no business ever going to college in the first place, and were given a loan from a predatory lender.
I thought about that too, but then you are faced with exceptions, and the exercise gets frayed.
To avoid getting hung up on outliers but still benefit from evaluating the ROI with a useful foray into caveats, someone else brought up College Degress that require a specialty, such as Nursing, Engineering, CPA, etc.
WesternCO68
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Like others have said, the choice of major is key. If someone has the mindset of maximizing earnings potential, the right choice of major combined with hard work can get them very far. Accounting is a good example. But what seems to be happening here is that people are comparing the top end earners among trades with low earners with college degrees.
I think in my parents' generation, just having a degree meant a lot. So my generation went to school thinking we could major in English or philosophy or psychology and have good jobs waiting for us upon graduation. I know a lot of people in my generation who are very cynical about college because of this experience. But do you know who's not cynical about college? The people who purposefully got useful degrees that got them jobs.
I think in my parents' generation, just having a degree meant a lot. So my generation went to school thinking we could major in English or philosophy or psychology and have good jobs waiting for us upon graduation. I know a lot of people in my generation who are very cynical about college because of this experience. But do you know who's not cynical about college? The people who purposefully got useful degrees that got them jobs.
This is a big problem. Doesn't matter what you choose to do, you still need some basic education.
Do they still even "flunk" kids in grades 1 thru 12 anymore? Used to be pretty common for a kid or two to get held back because they couldn't meet minimum standards. It was embarrassing for them and their family and kind of forced them to get it together and learn the basics.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
@JAG, I like the list. There is one or two that jump out and they had the highest avg salary when I looked. But the Culinary Arts had a higher avg salary than the Welder. It makes me a little cautious to think that the guy working at Texas Roadhouse is making more than the guy welding a bridge together.
Jorgy
Well-known member
Something that I never seen mentioned on college posts, and it's something my did taught me when I was looking at college 38 years ago. Its really easy to look up college statistics on graduation rates per program, and what percentage of people got a job in that specific field after graduation.
Every time I have ever brought this up to kids, my own or others, it's very eye opening to them when they look at it. You can easily see by the numbers if a certain degree from a certain college is even worth looking into further.
Every time I have ever brought this up to kids, my own or others, it's very eye opening to them when they look at it. You can easily see by the numbers if a certain degree from a certain college is even worth looking into further.
When I was a kid they were just called vocational schools and didn’t seem to set anyone up for college prep as an option. So this more progressive model seems like a great deal.
Anecdotally, I have some advanced degrees and all that jazz, but not in any of the most practical subjects (say geology or engineering). I alap acquired some carpentry skills and practical know-how from growing up semi rural. The 2008 financial crisis happened two years after completing my undergrad. Other work was scarce where I was living (NYC), but I fell back onto my carpentry and fabrication skills and was able to scrape by. I also later ran a design and fabrication business for a bit with those foundational skills and got to work with some real interesting clients. I’m on the white collar side of the world now, but I could probably walk onto a job site or into a fabrication shop tomorrow and have a job.
Without telling you my whole life story, I very much enjoyed academia but I am also immensely thankful to have some immediately practical skills.
The program you’re mentioning seems like a good way to get some formal training and then off to a 4 year degree if the kid has the aptitude and desire to succeed in such a program. If not, then they can go right to work with their skills they acquired.
I used to do career development professionally for Montana DLI - worked with primarily K-12 students, but also a fair number of college students and adults, as well. Take every stat you see and every anecdote you hear with a grain of salt. A pretty big one, sometimes.
All career pursuits will have different outcomes depending on a variety of factors including chosen career path, location, age, sex/gender/race/nationality (yes, it's true whether you like to believe it or not), level of education, intrinsic interests and skills, etc, and every possible combination of those things that you can imagine.
Sometimes you can do everything perfectly correctly and never get to where you want to be. Sometimes you can be a useless halfwit and do incredibly well for yourself. Life is a crazy ride.
All career pursuits will have different outcomes depending on a variety of factors including chosen career path, location, age, sex/gender/race/nationality (yes, it's true whether you like to believe it or not), level of education, intrinsic interests and skills, etc, and every possible combination of those things that you can imagine.
Sometimes you can do everything perfectly correctly and never get to where you want to be. Sometimes you can be a useless halfwit and do incredibly well for yourself. Life is a crazy ride.
That's fair. But $100k in the trades is not as much of an anomaly as some think. I totally agree that a college degree opens more doors. But there are a lot of people out there that aren't really cut out for college and would be better off in the trades or some other field that doesn't require a four year degree.
When I graduated high school in 2006, the trades were looked down on by many teachers in my school and was told by one teacher that 'it was better than nothing'.
I'm not knocking on college and often wonder if I should have gone myself. But in today's world, I think someone should have a really specific idea of what they want to do to make it worth it.
Bonasababy
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This post illustrates a huge difference--costs to send kids to a state school are highly dependent on how much support the state contributes to such schools. It's more like 20-25K annually in my state, although low income kids can qualify for free tuition.
The cheapest we got by with one of our kids was at a private college, actually--their tuition was higher than state schools but that kid was an excellent student and they provided for more financial aid than any of the state schools would. A LOT more.
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