Endangered Grizzly Bear Photo Thread

[MTGomer]

Sept 1 in 300 you should be okay with a 3 season rent.
Sept 15 in the 500s, a 4 season is a good idea. You can live without it but it sure is nice.

 

[BradA]

I'm no expert by any means there's TONS of amazing gear. A guy can construct about any program he wants out of it. Some of the items that fall into the shelter/ sleep system/ camp items/ i am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. That also goes with the packs, glass, etc.

A 4 season tent isn't a must but it's damn nice. Insulated pads are a must, good bags are a must.

Look over the mountaineering side of things, there's great gear that IMO is designed for those types of hunts and treks.

Get your check book out.....

i totally agree and I have in the past looked into the mountaineering side of equipment, matter of fact I run a sleeping back that has nothing to do with hunting and is from the UK I have found a lot of the best gear for mountaineering is in the UK I have most all the gear I will need already but am asking so I can plan on how heavy my pack is because if I don’t need a 4th season tent I will go with my lighter 3rd season tent. Who’s all running snowshoes? Crampons or microspikes?

 

[520 Road Sow]

My crampons never leave my pack when I'm going to the unlimited units. They're a game changer on steep shit.

Snow shoes are a only if needed......

 

[MTGomer]

I’ll bring crampons depending on the forecast and where I’m going.
You would want spikes for a wet, grassy chute if you had to come down it fully loaded, depending where you are. I’ve never been in 300, but there is some seriously vertical stuff in the Beartooth.
I’ve used snowshoes but never in September.

 

[buffybr]

Snowshoes, crampons, microspikes, what are those things?

I hunted the Unlimiteds maybe 10 times in the '80s and '90s, units 500, 303, 300, and 302. Most of those hunts I took my horses in for the opening weekend in September, and stayed in my wall tent. One of those trips in unit 500 I forgot my sleeping bag so those nights I just wore all of the clothes that I brought and put the horse pads on top of me.

Most of my solo hunts and the hunt my son and I did in unit 300, I/we stayed in a nylon dome tent that I have. I've had it for over 30 years, and I don't have any idea what brand it is. I'm pretty old school, and most of my sheep hunts I wore jeans, including on my Dall sheep hunt in Canada, although when I shot a ram in unit 500 and when I shot my mountain goat I was wearing wool pants from an Army surplus store.

As to the BradA's question about grizzly bears, they are in all of the unlimited sheep units, but I never saw one on any of my sheep hunts. When I hunted in 300, the local Game Warden stopped by our camp and warned us about a large male grizz in the area, but we didn't see him. Keep a clean camp and hang your food away from your camp and you should be fine.

Also, last year the bighorn season in unit 300 was from the 1st to 10th of September, and usually the weather is pretty mild then.

 

[MTGomer]

I used crampons in this photo. It’s about 3200 vertical feet straight down to the bottom. I’m sure I would have lived without them with my 40 lb pack, headed for the truck. I fell like 10 times instead of dozens.
It would have been a long day with a ram and 80 more pounds in the pack without them. (Un)Fortunately you rarely have to actually worry about what it feels like to carry a ram out.

This isn’t anywhere near as steep as the Beartooth units can be, either.
502, 501, and about 2/3 of 500 are definitely steeper than further west

Don’t not go because of not having the perfect gear list though. Like Buffy says, you will get by.

 

[recurveman]

I don't think you need a 4 season tent most of the time. If you do need a 4 season tent you will probably not head into the hills. Some of these areas just aren't fun when they get wet. Most of the areas are tough when conditions are perfect let alone icy and slick. Personally I think wind is a bigger factor than the snow. When you are on top it never stops blowing 15+. 25+ is really common.

Bears - I've seen both species of bears in the UL's. Actually seeing a bear isn't that big of a deal.....It's sleeping in your tent at night knowing that there is 1mm of material between you and a bear making a snack out of you. Even if a bear doesn't spend any time exploring the inside of your tent you still need to realize that it is a possibility. Maybe it isn't that probable but when it's blowing at night and you hear stuff moving its easy to think it is a bear. Quite a few guys don't deal with it well. The fear is real and everyone knows they are in the hills. Have a plan on how to deal with it.

Elevation is another big deal depending on how you handle elevation. The elevation will have an impact on your energy and attitude if you live below 5000-6000 feet. Being at 10K+ elevation is humbling. I personally move at half speed. You will constantly be out of breath, move really slow, every movement takes twice as long. Simple tasks are no longer easy. Just normal camp duties will take a ton more effort.......You have to work through this before you can become a predator in the UL's. I think very few of the sheep guys really ever become predators. Most show up. It overwhelms them and that is enough. Forget killing a sheep. Just getting up, down and moving around is a very epic adventure. Killing a sheep.......most never make it to that point.

The hard part isn't killing a sheep in the UL's. The hard part is just living in the UL's.

 

[ZMT588]

A bill was just put forward that would impose additional restrictions on limited licenses in MT, including making moose, sheep, and goat once in a lifetime opportunities. As it reads, it does include the Unlimiteds: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2021/billh...sF7PjQ-2c9Llh-wXde_-WWWU7OqdSxAr0MgO3xZk33iIs

If you enjoy hunting the Unlimiteds or would like to someday, it would be worth reaching out to anyone you know that has influence on a higher level that may be able to counter this.

A similar bill was presented recently that had additional restrictions on youth. This bill did not go anywhere; however, this new bill does not have these same youth restrictions.

I understand some people have waited a lifetime to draw a special MSG tag, while others have drawn multiple times. I can understand how this may be frustrating but I don't believe additional restrictions on these tags is a longterm solution to increasing opportunity for all.

In my opinion, these unlimited units introduce many to sheep hunting that would never have the opportunity to hunt sheep otherwise. Many become passionate about sheep hunting and wild sheep and eventually invest more time and money into wild sheep conservation than they may have otherwise. These conservation efforts put more sheep on the landscape, which eventually leads to more tags and more opportunity. Restricting MSG opportunities does not help generate more support for these conservation initiatives in my opinion.

Is 4b removed in the amended bill?

 

[MTGomer]

Is 4b removed in the amended bill?

4b is removed/becomes irrelevant with the addition of the language in 3a

 

[ZMT588]

4b is removed/becomes irrelevant with the addition of the language in 3a

That's what I thought but was unsure about it still being there.

 

[Cheesehead]

Seems like a great bill to me, regardless of the unlimited piece. I think more states need to make MSG tags truly OIL (if harvested)...eg, guys getting multiple desert sheep in NV. Also, if unlimiteds help introduce folks to sheep hunting, they wouldn't be affected by this.

 

[MTGomer]

That's what I thought but was unsure about it still being there.

They are hard to read.
The new text is underlined and the text with the strike though font is the old text that is being stricken out.
It’s hard on the eyes, at least for me.

 

[MTGomer]

Seems like a great bill to me, regardless of the unlimited piece. I think more states need to make MSG tags truly OIL (if harvested)...eg, guys getting multiple desert sheep in NV

This bill would change the chances of drawing a sheep tag in Montana from 0.395% to 0.454%

If you want more sheep hunting, efforts to put more sheep on the mountain will be much more beneficial.

This bill would take away the opportunity of the unlimiteds for many people, with no real benefit. The amount of people, money and conservation efforts that have happened due to people becoming passionate about sheep hunting through the unlimiteds is hard to measure, but it’s significant.
I’d even argue that without us, it’s mainly a dying club of old, rich men.

This is proposed by the same Republican that sponsored this bill and tried to exclude children from hunting moose sheep and goats last session. That’s a scarcity mindset at its worst - Trying to keep kids from hunting, because him and a few of his elderly friends that got in on the ground floor of the point system, haven’t drawn a sheep or moose tag.

People like Denley that are 69 years old could have bought moose or sheep hunts for pennies when they were in the prime of their lives.

It sounds like MT WSF is opposed. So are some others that have some influence.

 

[Cheesehead]

This bill would change the chances of drawing a sheep tag in Montana from 0.395% to 0.454% if true, that's a 15% improvement w/no cost for any first timer. Not bad!

If you want more sheep hunting, efforts to put more sheep on the mountain will be much more beneficial. False dichotomy...non-binary choice

This bill would take away the opportunity of the unlimiteds for many people, with no real benefit. The amount of people, money and conservation efforts that have happened due to people becoming passionate about sheep hunting through the unlimiteds is hard to measure, but it’s significant.
I’d even argue that without us, it’s mainly a dying club of old, rich men. I'm kinda with you there, but this would only penalize that have already been successful on a very limited resource...and 'sheep nuts' are not exactly lacking these days but opportunities are

This is proposed by the same Republican that sponsored this bill and tried to exclude children from hunting moose sheep and goats last session. That’s a scarcity mindset at its worst - Trying to keep kids from hunting, because him and a few of his elderly friends that got in on the ground floor of the point system, haven’t drawn a sheep or moose tag. ad hominem

People like Denley that are 69 years old could have bought moose or sheep hunts for pennies when they were in the prime of their lives. ad hominem

It sounds like MT WSF is opposed. So are some others that have some influence. argumentum ad verecundiam

I'm very popular at parties. End of the day I'm sympathetic to any state restricting to a single harvest of MSG species. More opportunity for new comers.

 

[winmag]

Here we go again. Denley pulled this same crap in 2019. Last time WSF sent a representative to the public comment proceedings with some good arguments in opposition. I hope WSF sends someone this time too.

The bill died early in the process last time, I think in committee. I hope for the same result this time.

 

[winmag]

I'm very popular at parties.

You’re well on your way to being just as popular on this thread

 

[MTGomer]

There has long been a quiet push to do away with the units all together. They are expensive and time consuming for FWP to run. The biologist that runs them has been eligible for retirement for several years and it has been expressed to me by several R5 FWP employees that they worry about the units’ future.

This will do a lot more to end this opportunity all together than it will to increase opportunity.
I’m sure Mr. Loge is not informed on the unlimiteds and he probably has not put a lot of thought into them.
IIRC, from last time, he wants the paradise ram tag. I can’t blame him.
But he hasn’t drawn it because it has terrible odds, not because I’d like to go back into the unlimiteds in 2027, or because a couple guys have hunted the unlimiteds their entire lives.

My experience in the Beartooth has been greatly enriched from the mentorship of people that have spent their lives in the mountain range, some of whom are legends in the sheep hunting world.
I never considered them competition or as cheating me out of opportunity. Honestly, I probably never would have gotten a ram without their inspiration. Having hunted 1/5 of the units for 1/6 of my life, I am definitely still a new comer, myself.

This will prohibit the core group of people that are most passionate about this resource from hunting it, providing valuable information to FWP and surely making regular people uninvolved and disinterested in something that is otherwise largely a game for the extremely lucky and extremely rich.

It was us, not FWP that have
- consistently inventoried enough goats to open a new goat unit with 4 tags.
- documented 100%(to the best of our knowledge) of the Wolverine sightings in the last 4 years.
- counted sheep on the winter range when FWP couldn’t fly due to budget, weather, and more recently a pandemic.

Maybe I just want to hunt sheep and am extremely biased, but I think the unlimiteds unravel after Shawn Stewart retires if we lose this opportunity.

 

[520 Road Sow]

 

[520 Road Sow]

I'm very popular at parties. End of the day I'm sympathetic to any state restricting to a single harvest of MSG species. More opportunity for new comers.

You sound like a Packer fan after they lost another NFC Championship......... Just saying.

 

[BradA]

I’m curious if I am understanding the language of the bill correctly and if I’m not please tell me.
So basically if it were to pass and you were to draw a limited entry sheep permit you wouldn’t be able to hunt ever again but that doesn’t apply for the unlimited correct? Because it states
"limited mountain sheep license" means a license that is valid for an area in which the number of licenses issued is restricted.”
And since the unlimited units are not restricted to how many permits are issued it wouldn’t affect it correct?