Endangered Grizzly Bear Photo Thread

[Cheesehead]

There has long been a quiet push to do away with the units all together. They are expensive and time consuming for FWP to run. The biologist that runs them has been eligible for retirement for several years and it has been expressed to me by several R5 FWP employees that they worry about the units’ future.

This will do a lot more to end this opportunity all together than it will to increase opportunity.
I’m sure Mr. Loge is not informed on the unlimiteds and he probably has not put a lot of thought into them.
IIRC, from last time, he wants the paradise ram tag. I can’t blame him.
But he hasn’t drawn it because it has terrible odds, not because I’d like to go back into the unlimiteds in 2027, or because a couple guys have hunted the unlimiteds their entire lives.

My experience in the Beartooth has been greatly enriched from the mentorship of people that have spent their lives in the mountain range, some of whom are legends in the sheep hunting world.
I never considered them competition or as cheating me out of opportunity. Honestly, I probably never would have gotten a ram without their inspiration. Having hunted 1/5 of the units for 1/6 of my life, I am definitely still a new comer, myself.

This will prohibit the core group of people that are most passionate about this resource from hunting it, providing valuable information to FWP and surely making regular people uninvolved and disinterested in something that is otherwise largely a game for the extremely lucky and extremely rich.

It was us, not FWP that have
- consistently inventoried enough goats to open a new goat unit with 4 tags.
- documented 100%(to the best of our knowledge) of the Wolverine sightings in the last 4 years.
- counted sheep on the winter range when FWP couldn’t fly due to budget, weather, and more recently a pandemic.

Maybe I just want to hunt sheep and am extremely biased, but I think the unlimiteds unravel after Shawn Stewart retires if we lose this opportunity.

Appreciate the response. I still like the idea of MSG limited tags being restricted to one harvest / participant / state. But do slightly prefer the option of the unlimiteds being excluded from the current bill, given the meritocratic nature of the thing.

It's a bit like Jim Jefferies on gun control.

And @EYJONAS!, yes. very foul mood thanks to Mr Brady and lousy refs!

 

[andrew11]

Appreciate the response. I still like the idea of MSG limited tags being restricted to one harvest / participant / state. But do slightly prefer the option of the unlimiteds being excluded from the current bill, given the meritocratic nature of the thing.

Got to thinking how this would affect the quality of the unlimited hunts. If someone was unable to go back into the drawing after getting a limited entry tag, and was able to then grab an unlimited tag, I think it would greatly increase the amount of unlimited tags pulled and could have a neg affect on the quality of the hunt. I Also dont think the unlimited tag should be a once in a lifetime tag.

I'm kinda in the if its not broken, dont try to fix it group.

 

[winmag]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it by 0.059% and call that a fix.

There are other ways to “fix” the dismal draw odds without these negative consequences if they get creative. Try points cubed instead of squared. Or X% go to max point holders. Or something else. But making it OIAL to improve odds by 0.059% is just stupid.

If it passes, one would think that this would drive more pressure to the unlimited units as folks kill their OIAL limited tag sheep but (I hope) the reality is that if they were going to hunt the unlimiteds they’d already be doing it. I’m sure it would increase pressure by some amount but probably not that much.

 

[406dn]

And @EYJONAS!, yes. very foul mood thanks to Mr Brady and lousy refs!

I just have to say,, a Packer fan whining about refs is pretty rich. Aaron has received more than his share of calls by lousy refs.

 

[BigHornRam]

I just have to say,, a Packer fan whining about refs is pretty rich. Aaron has received more than his share of calls by lousy refs.

Keep the whining about sports in the sports section. Thread is about unlimited sheep hunting. Thanks.

 

[406dn]

From my perspective, there is no perfect system. What is in place right now is not so flawed to need an overhaul.

I've been trying for nearly 40 years to draw a bighorn tag. I fully expect to run out of time. That's ok,, it is a rare opportunity. Also I have known about the the unlimited areas for as many years. Life and competing interests made it so I have never purchased a license. But, I fully support keeping that opportunity available for as long as it is sustainable.

The seven year wait required for the moose, goat and ram tags, plus the long odds involved already make the tags effectively a once in a lifetime chance. I have managed three cow moose tags over the years. My personal decision was if I wanted to be able to hunt moose,, trying for a cow was doable,, a bull much more dicy.

After drawing a goat tag pretty quickly after moving to Montana, I decided that my quota of goats in a lifetime was filled. I think many others make the same decision.

There is no perfect system. As long as the draw is on the up and up, I can accept it.

 

[MTGomer]

I listened to the House committee hearing on this today.

Regardless of your stance on this... I’m super disappointed in how incoherent these hearings are.

This specific bill’s hearing devolved into confusion about whether or not grizzly bears are hunted in Montana and whether or not hunters of moose, sheep, goat eat their kills, with no mention of a Wanton Waste law.

Intelligent comments on both sides of the topic came from the general public. I wish we could expect the same from people on the Committee

 

[Southern Elk]

Making tags OIL isn’t going to help me
draw a sheep tag. If we want more sheep on the mountain, we’ve got to get rid of the damn domestic sheep where bighorns live. I can’t, for the life of me, understand why we won’t protect bighorns. I guarantee you if it was wolves or grizzlies that were getting sick because of domestic animals, something would be done about it.

 

[bigsky2]

It would be really interesting to know how much viable Bighorn habitat we have in Montana that isn’t being utilized. North Dakota manages sheep in the badlands and then when you cross the border into Montana it’s not even on our radar even though there are rams showing up all the time. There is lots of traditional sheep habitat in places along the Yellowstone. Places like the Terry Breaks and Makoshika State Park seem like great places to introduce Bighorns.

 

[520 Road Sow]

It would be really interesting to know how much viable Bighorn habitat we have in Montana that isn’t being utilized. North Dakota manages sheep in the badlands and then when you cross the border into Montana it’s not even on our radar even though there are rams showing up all the time. There is lots of traditional sheep habitat in places along the Yellowstone. Places like the Terry Breaks and Makoshika State Park seem like great places to introduce Bighorns.

There's already a resident sheep herd in the Terry Breaks, Yellowstone breaks/ pine hills. A healthy heard at that. I believe in the 40s or 50s there was also sheep introduced into the south side of Fort Peck lake. They didn't survive or moved north into the 620/630 area. I believe the reasoning behind the obstacle of having a hunting district is the lack of actual public land they inhabit, and the private folks aren't willing to cooperate.

I think this topic needs it's own thread vs the unlimited section, if we want to discuss new or other areas maybe the topic should be. Where else or who else or what's the chances of expanding the "unlimited" opportunity for bighorn sheep. I think Idaho has some areas along with Wyoming. However there is a lot to change to make that happen. I know the topic has been discussed and even a thought in FWP mind what about an "archery only unlimited area" in 302?

 

[BradA]

I have a question about the 48 hour period after the quota is filled. That was brought to my attention after 6 rams were killed in 501 last year. So hypothetically let’s say that the quota is meet on opener sept 15th two rams killed, you wake up and call in or check in on the quota it’s pending closure since two rams have been killed does that mean you have the next 48 hours to hunt and find a legal ram or 48 hours to kill a legal ram and get it to a office ? Because some of these units it can take a day or more to get out depending on weather conditions and how far you are.

 

[520 Road Sow]

That's correct. Find and kill a legal ram then you have 24 to report and 48 to present.

BTW all the rams got killed in 501 so don't go there next year too. Probably take 5 years to rebound.

 

[BradA]

That's correct. Find and kill a legal ram then you have 24 to report and 48 to present.

BTW all the rams got killed in 501 so don't go there next year too. Probably take 5 years to rebound.

But if the quota is filled once it has reported 2 rams then you technically have two days to hunt until the season is closed? So if season closes on a Monday then you have through Wednesday to hunt and then if you kill one the evening of Wednesday then you have 24 hours to report and 48 hours to get it to the biologist, am I understanding that correctly ?

 

[520 Road Sow]

Yes

 

[520 Road Sow]

But if the quota is filled once it has reported 2 rams then you technically have two days to hunt until the season is closed? So if season BEGINS CLOSURE on a Monday then you have through Wednesday to hunt and then if you kill one the evening of Wednesday then you have 24 hours to report and 48 hours to get it to the biologist, am I understanding that correctly ?

It will technically close on a Wednesday in that scenario. If you by the grace of God were able to find and take a ram Wednesday, then your scenario is correct. Which is what happened this season with the sixth ram. I will say that what happened in 501 this season is a sheer anomaly of what 2020 was.

 

[MTGomer]

This question gets asked a lot. The regulations say everything that they say and say nothing that they don’t.
Guys get confused trying to interpret things that aren’t there.

When a 2nd ram gets reported the hotline will be updated with a 48 hour closure notice and it will state exactly when the unit closes. “One half hour after sunset on xx”

Some guys think you should stop hunting when you know the unit is closing and it’s unethical to keep hunting. Some think there is cushion built into the quota and it’s okay to keep hunting.
Based on discussions with the bio, I fall more into the last camp, however I certainly would not kill a 6th ram on the afternoon of the closure day, knowing that the unit is already 3 rams over quota.

 

[BradA]

It will technically close on a Wednesday in that scenario. If you by the grace of God were able to find and take a ram Wednesday, then your scenario is correct. Which is what happened this season with the sixth ram. I will say that what happened in 501 this season is a sheer anomaly of what 2020 was.

Ok that makes sense thank you I was curious how that could have happened in 501 this year.

 

[BradA]

This question gets asked a lot. The regulations say everything that they say and say nothing that they don’t.
Guys get confused trying to interpret things that aren’t there.

When a 2nd ram gets reported the hotline will be updated with a 48 hour closure notice and it will state exactly when the unit closes. “One half hour after sunset on xx”

Some guys think you should stop hunting when you know the unit is closing and it’s unethical to keep hunting. Some think there is cushion built into the quota and it’s okay to keep hunting.
Based on discussions with the bio, I fall more into the last camp, however I certainly would not kill a 6th ram on the afternoon of the closure day, knowing that the unit is already 3 rams over quota.

Ok you explaining the hotline and what it says makes it much clearer, awesome thank you. Yeah I want to make sure I’m not doing anything wrong and was confused a little bit I appreciate you clearing that up for me.

 

[BradA]

Finally read through all 96 pages, can’t wait to contribute to this by posting pictures and telling stories! Congratulations to the luck successful hunters that posted on here over the last few years.

 

[Philthyphil]

I more excited than my wife expected. Kids were stoked.