Endangered Grizzly Bear Photo Thread

[andrew11]

Not to continue to beat a dead horse but is this 4? Can someone mark up the annuli that get it there?

View attachment 205376

I agree on the age as well. But we dont determine if a ram is legal/ or not based on age, I think the bigger deal would be the length.
Right out of the montana play book for legal requirements.
Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.
Not to mention that isnt a broad side view either.

 

[520 Road Sow]

I guess they're not interested in taking it any further, still no response from FWP either. I'm with @TheTone on this and sending my money to @Oak and supporting his efforts. I'm moving on to chasing ul rams in the future. I will say though there ain't a chance in hell I'd kill a ram like that or the first 500 ram. To each his own but I'm moving on.

 

[winmag]

If you have to have 4 people stare at a ram for an hour, with a protractor etc. to MAYBE make it legal, then you should probably not shoot the damn lamb.

 

[BigHornRam]

I agree on the age as well. But we dont determine if a ram is legal/ or not based on age, I think the bigger deal would be the length.
Right out of the montana play book for legal requirements.
Pretty cut and dry if you ask me.
Not to mention that isnt a broad side view either.
View attachment 205393

The problem with the 3/4 curl definition is the part where it says "any portion of the eye opening". The sheep drawing shows the line going through the center of the eye. If you use a line from the base of the horn, and barely intercept the rear of the eye, the horn can much shorter and still be legal. Too much wiggle room here.

 

[winmag]

It would not intercept the eye opening at all if the picture were taken perpendicular to the side of the rams head, as the regulations state.

 

[Irrelevant]

Does it really matter anymore? I mean is FWP going to all of a sudden decide they were wrong, take the trophy, fine the shooter, fire the FWP person who plugged it?

 

[BigHornRam]

At this point, all I care about is WSF firing the author of this God awful story.

 

[ZMT588]

Does it really matter anymore? I mean is FWP going to all of a sudden decide they were wrong, take the trophy, fine the shooter, fire the FWP person who plugged it?

Probably not, but like I told my buddy the other day "Hunttalk turns into the high school girls locker room after season ends." We just need something to bitch about until next year.

 

[winmag]

If we as hunters don't hold FWP, WSF, writers, and other hunters accountable for their actions then who will?

If FWP gets a bunch of complaints then maybe they'll have more stringent tests of legality.
If WSF gets a bunch of complaints then maybe they won't publish articles praising the harvest of tiny 4.5yo rams anymore.

It's really the only card we have to play; might as well play it.

 

[406dn]

Does it really matter anymore? I mean is FWP going to all of a sudden decide they were wrong, take the trophy, fine the shooter, fire the FWP person who plugged it?

If "matters" means a wrong will get corrected, no it doesn't matter. What is done is done.

But it does matter if the effort is to assure that this episode is not normalized, glorified or forgotten.

Like every human endeavor, the higher the stakes, the more the very best AND very worst in humans is revealed.

We'd be hard pressed to name a big game animal that fascinates more hunters that mountain sheep. Only a small number of us ever get to fufilll the dream of actually harvesting a ram. What the Boddingtons did is worth every ounce of scorn the hunting community can heap upon them. They did not make it any easier to defend trophy hunting.

If they had respect for mountain sheep, that rams walks. It got shot to facilitate their desire to be seen as big time trophy hunters.

 

[Irrelevant]

If "matters" means a wrong will get corrected, no it doesn't matter. What is done is done.

But it does matter if there if the effort is to assure that this episode is not normalized, glorified or forgotten.

Like every human endeavor, the higher the stakes, the more the very best AND very worst in humans is revealed.

We'd be hard pressed to name a big game animal that fascinates more hunters that mountain sheep. Only a small number of us ever get to fufilll the dream of actually harvesting a ram. What the Boddingtons did is worth every ounce of scorn the hunting community can heap upon them. They did not make it any easier to defend trophy hunting.

If they had respect for mountain sheep, that rams walks. It got shot to facilitate their desire to be seen as big time trophy hunters.

Yes, I get that.

But we as hunters are constantly making the argument that the individual doesn't matter, what we care about is the species- the population of animals.

This was one young ram that could of just as easily been hit on the highway. It's death doesn't affect "mt sheep" as a population at all.

The horse is dead- you can beat it a little more if you really want to, but then you got realize the finality of the situation and stop.

 

[ZMT588]

Yes, I get that.

But we as hunters are constantly making the argument that the individual doesn't matter, what we care about is the species- the population of animals.

This was one young ram that could of just as easily been hit on the highway. It's death doesn't affect "mt sheep" as a population at all.

The horse is dead- you can beat it a little more if you really want to, but then you got realize the finality of the situation and stop.

You're just not a passionate sheep hunter yet

Jokes aside I think this has more to do with the legality of shooting a sub legal lamb and getting away with it than it has to do with the overall population of the unlimited sheep.

 

[520 Road Sow]

Jonas is moving on. I've had enough HT for awhile.

@Southern Elk just cause I am a man of my word and your beloved Dak is gonna take your 'boys to the playoffs I will honor our deal.

Remember "only the ram knows, where the ram lives" - Don't be marketing that shit either @sacountry.

Good luck all, hope to one day see ya on the trail.

 

[ZMT588]

Jonas is moving on. I've had enough HT for awhile.

@Southern Elk just cause I am a man of my word and your beloved Dak is gonna take your 'boys to the playoffs I will honor our deal.

Remember "only the ram knows, where the ram lives" - Don't be marketing that shit either @sacountry.

Good luck all, hope to one day see ya on the trail.

Bruh stfu. You'll be back by friday after you have a few silver bullets stirring the pot again. #bigpapiknows

 

[sacountry]

Jonas is moving on. I've had enough HT for awhile.

@Southern Elk just cause I am a man of my word and your beloved Dak is gonna take your 'boys to the playoffs I will honor our deal.

Remember "only the ram knows, where the ram lives" - Don't be marketing that shit either @sacountry.

Good luck all, hope to one day see ya on the trail.

For reals? I'm reading copious amounts of sarcasm in your post. You can't leave. There's a handful of people on here that make this forum run.....while you're not one of them, I do appreciate your presence...occasionally. :-(

 

[Oak]

There is probably an opportunity for improving the future if someone wants to pick the ball up off the carpet and run with it. Mr. Thornton is now invested, complaints have been lodged with FWP, UL hunters are obviously passionate and concerned. Convene a group consisting of all three and talk through the concerns, maybe come up with new ways of confirming legality of rams, documenting checked rams, etc. Open up the communication. If the the flame just flickers on HT a while and a feelings get bruised, I can assure you not much will change.

 

[shines@times]

"Hunttalk turns into the high school girls locker room after season ends." We just need something to bitch about until next year.

Do we really? Whatever happened to sharing camp and high country scenery photos, and discussing gear selections?

 

[shines@times]

I wonder if Grey has seen that picture?

That email of his continues to make me want to puke. I was really on the verge of becoming a WSF member. Maybe I’ll email him and tell him why I won’t be and then cut a check to Oak

Gray N. Thornton makes descent points in his letter, entirely valid ones in my opinion, provided the sheep is legitimately a 3/4 curl legal ram. A 3/4 curl requirement is unambiguously straight forward, workable and doesn't put undue stress upon hunters in already challenging circumstances. I have shot at two MT Unlimited rams--missing the first one cleanly--and did not require prolonged study to determine legal headgear on either one. While sitting upon a boulder and contemplating that first miss, I did study another ram that emerged from a draw and determined that its left horn projected well over an inch beyond that eye-intersecting line that I was superimposing with my scope's reticle. I passed on that ram, but would not have criticized another hunter's decision to shoot. I hope that the Boddington trophy does show up displayed in public forum(s) as several members here have predicted it will. Preferably, it will appear in a Euro-style mount, so that participants of this thread may judge its legitimacy for themselves while granting the Boddingtons the benefit of a larger eye (socket) opening .

As I have previously mentioned, a more concerning issue to me would be if it is sub-legal (people do make mistakes) and it was improperly passed by FWP personnel due to perceived celebrity status of the shooter and her spouse, or due to some other consideration or inducement. Until I can view that head myself, from the side, or obtain the first-hand report of some trusted member of this forum who does so, I think it is time for me to withhold further comment on whether it is a legal ram or not. If it is a legal ram, that should be the end of the story, though I certainly question the judgement behind authoring and publishing a sheep hunting story for a prestious journal that suggests it was a valid field call to shoot such a ram that subsequently requires fat baling twine to justify its harvest. There would be no quibble from me at all if Montana's standard for the U/L units was "any ram." Wild sheep are tasty table fare; and I'm sure that the youngster was tender.

 

[shines@times]

Jonas is moving on. I've had enough HT for awhile.

@Southern Elk just cause I am a man of my word and your beloved Dak is gonna take your 'boys to the playoffs I will honor our deal.

Remember "only the ram knows, where the ram lives" - Don't be marketing that shit either @sacountry.

Good luck all, hope to one day see ya on the trail.

BULLSHIT! You'll be back with spurs on the instant anyone posts an off-topic comment to this thread--the offender doesn't even have to be me!

 

[RobertD]

I'm not a member of this club but I'm forced to lurk here

Waiting to see a picture of that damn sheep taken from the correct angle