elk hunting video of the future...

[schmalts]

Looks like you are mostly correct, but I think the bigger problem is that the herd is barely 100 animals. Wolves aren't the only predator, either.

Oak, our herd is small because the gains we have made are also small. The Wolf is the main reason. The Elk project is a joke in Wisconsin. We started with too few animals, and then the wolves were brought in. I believe Pennsylvania started their re-introduction close to the same time and they have had a hunting season for a while now. Started bigger, no wolves, go figure.
Thanks Oak, i wasnt going to dig for the proof to rub in Millers wolf loving face. So there you have it, Wisconsin needs the wolves delisted or our Elk heard will never take off. These stats are just short term and this has been going on for years. Once again hunters money is used for re-introduction of elk, and the results are gloomy due to a problem, and shall i say "unbelieved" wolf population.
Lift the protection and let the smack down begin!!

 

[schmalts]

Quote:[Analyzing our wolf predation investigations its apparent that in addition to the occasional solitary bull being killed more “group” animals are being taken. Most are young animals, not quite a year old, and most of these are killed next to river-ways. . If this pattern progresses to sub-adult and adult cows, the Clam Lake herd will be in serious trouble.]

Yea, they only kill the old, sick and weak
And Miller, this is a spring report, wait until the snow falls and the bears are napping and the wolves are snacking. Still think we dont need a wolf season in wisconsin? Still think they only kill weak, old and sick animals?
They were wiped out for a reason, and that reason helped hunters benefit greatly all over the USA

 

[mtmiller]

Do you not think calves are some of the weakest in the population?

 

[Dinkshooter]

I hear the late born calves are alot like Doritos to wolves. A tasty quick snack.

 

[Oak]

The Elk project is a joke in Wisconsin. We started with too few animals, and then the wolves were brought in. I believe Pennsylvania started their re-introduction close to the same time and they have had a hunting season for a while now. Started bigger, no wolves, go figure.

How accurate is this? Were wolves ever "brought in"? If so, was it after elk introduction?

From the Wisconsin DNR website:

Before Wisconsin was settled in the 1830s, wolves lived throughout the state. Nobody knows how many wolves there were, but best estimates would be 3,000-5,000 animals. Explorers, trappers and settlers transformed Wisconsin's native habitat into farmland, hunted elk and bison to extirpation, and reduced deer populations. As their prey species declined, wolves began to feed on easy-to-capture livestock. As might be expected, this was unpopular among farmers. In response to pressure from farmers, the Wisconsin Legislature passed a state bounty in 1865, offering $5 for every wolf killed. By 1900, no timber wolves existed in the southern two-thirds of the state.

At that time, sport hunting of deer was becoming an economic boost to Wisconsin. To help preserve the dwindling deer population for this purpose, the state supported the elimination of predators like wolves. The wolf bounty was increased to $20 for adults and $10 for pups. The state bounty on wolves persisted until 1957. By the time bounties were lifted, millions of taxpayers' dollars had been spent to kill Wisconsin's wolves, and few wolves were left. By 1960, wolves were declared extirpated from Wisconsin. Ironically, studies have shown that wolves have minimal negative impact on deer populations, since they feed primarily on weak, sick, or disabled individuals.

The story was similar throughout the United States. By 1960, few wolves remained in the lower 48 states (only 350-500 in Minnesota and about 20 on Isle Royale in Michigan). In 1974, however, the value of timber wolves was recognized on the federal level and they were given protection under the Endangered Species Act. With protection, the Minnesota wolf population in-creased and several individuals dispersed into northern Wisconsin in the mid-1970s. In 1975, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources declared timber wolves endangered. A wolf research program was initiated in 1979.

Studies since 1979 have shown that four to twenty-eight wolf packs, ranging from 15 to 105 animals, roamed portions of central and northern Wisconsin. Average adult mortality was about 38% in the early 1980s, but has been reduced to 20% the last few years, and the population continues to increase.

In 1993 the Wisconsin State Legislature authorized the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point (UW-SP) to evaluate the potential for reintroducing elk to the Great Divide District (GDD) of the Chequamegon National Forest (CNF) near Clam Lake. During February 1995, 25 elk were trapped, held in a quarantine facility for 90 days while undergoing rigorous disease testing, and shipped to the Clam Lake release site. After being held in a pen for a 2-week acclimation period, the elk were released into the CNF on 17 May, 1995.

 

[schmalts]

Oak, packs were brought in, and transplanted. Some migrated in from the UP and Minn

 

[chequamegonguy]

Wisconsin needs to do something about the wolves. One of the bigger packs of wolves in the state are by Clam Lake. So lets put a bunch of elk in the same area...Smart. The wolves are one of the main reasons for the decline of the elk there. Also some are dying from liver flukes and vehicle collisions. That pack by clam lake should be eliminated. All the money getting spent on elk introduction, and to have it all be useless. And then during training season with hounds and bear season, the wolves are killing the dogs. Then the state turns around and has to reimburse the hunters for the dogs. In that area hunters have been warned to stay out of there because this pack of wolves has made it very well known that they will kill and eat the hunting dogs...Seems to me that if that pack was eliminated it would save the state a whole lot of money. With only the cost of a few bullets.
Adrian Wydevan (wolf biologist at the park falls DNR office, where i am from) would have everybody believe that the dog attacks are a result of territory battles. I wonder about that though, being that the animals in most cases are being eaten. Also when a family has there yellow labrador hooked up in there back yard and 3 wolves come into there yard and eat the dog. Doesnt sound like territory disputes there...

 

[chequamegonguy]

There were some wolves in the area. The majority of the wolves have been brought in. You can go to the DNR and get maps of where all the packs are, and the names of the packs. Those are the ones that people keep hearing about, the ones that were brought in. Aside from the wolves just being useless, I wonder if the DNR handling these wolves too much is having an effect on these TimberWolves having more encounters with people in towns and with there housepets...There not so scared of people anymore. From spring un until now, I have seen 8 different wolves. 2 of which were right on the south side of Park Falls by the local bait shop.. They have probably grown fond of the taste of dog. Wisconsin residents just need to start shooting them...Nobody else is going to do any management of them

 

[BuzzH]

Yep,

Those wolves are having a huge impact on Wisonsin deer...how many total deer are there in Wisconsin now?

I have a buddy from Wisconsin that moved to AK about 15 years ago...he's moving back to Wisconsin this summer.

On our recent blacktail hunt, he was telling me that the deer herd in Wisconsin has about doubled since he left. Matter of fact, I talked to 3 guys from Wisconsin in the airport in Kodiak, all they could talk about was how many whitetails are there now.

Damn wolves...cant even keep the deer in check!

 

[JB]

Those wolves are having a huge impact on Wisonsin deer

evidently they prefer domestic dog.(taste like chicken)
maybe after all the pets are gone they will start in on the deer.

 

[schmalts]

Yep,

Those wolves are having a huge impact on Wisonsin deer...how many total deer are there in Wisconsin now?

I have a buddy from Wisconsin that moved to AK about 15 years ago...he's moving back to Wisconsin this summer.

On our recent blacktail hunt, he was telling me that the deer herd in Wisconsin has about doubled since he left. Matter of fact, I talked to 3 guys from Wisconsin in the airport in Kodiak, all they could talk about was how many whitetails are there now.

Damn wolves...cant even keep the deer in check!

Your not well informed buzz, neither is your buddy, check your facts. In fact you are not even close. Deer population doubled?? no way. our herd goes up and down due to winter and hunting quotas and around 12-15 years ago was one of our high points. Also, the population growth in the deer herd is not high where the wolves are. The population increase is in the agricultural area, NOT THE LARGE FORESTED AREAS WHERE THE WOLVES ARE. So if you think the wolves have no population effect on deer you are incorrect. The fact is they have a huge affect on the deer population, talk to anyone who hunts in wolf country.
Heres a link to the population chart for wisconsin, so you can tell your Alaskan buddy he is full of shit.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/images/hunt/deer/deer_pop.jpg
As you can see in 1990 the population was 1,400,000 and in 2006 it is 1,650,00...in fact in the early 2000's the population was the same as it was 15 years ago. i dont see any doubled population, not even close. I can also show you a chart that shows the majority of the population increase is in the lower third of the state in the farming country where wolves are not living. Those areas are booming because of landowners not practicing QDM but the DNR has a handle on it i think with the "earn a buck" program forcing guys to shoot a doe before they can take a buck.

 

[JB]

i just guessing here.....but wouldnt it require a unusually high snow fall coupled with an over population of wolves to really effect the deer herd?

 

[mtmiller]

Wisconsin

• deer population prior hunting season - 1.64 million (http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Wisconsin/State_Deer_Population_at_164_Million_05170509.html)
• wolf population - 425 - 455 in 2005 (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/ORG/LAND/er/factsheets/mammals/wolf.htm#Current Status)
• est. number of deer taken per wolf per year- 18 (http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/ORG/LAND/er/factsheets/mammals/wolf.htm#Misconceptions and Controversies)
• number of deer killed by hunters (bow and rifle/shotgun) - >500,000 (http://www.wisconsinsportsmanmag.com/hunting/whitetail-deer-hunting/WI_1005_01/)
• whitetail carcasses removed from Wisconsin roadways in 2003 - 47,841 (http://www.deercrash.com/10year/wisconsin.htm)

You can dispute the numbers and that is cool. I was interested and thought I would do a little quick research.

Let's say there are 500 wolves and they kill 20 deer/wolf. Well less that 1% of the population is taken out by wolves. Too many, too few...you decide.

Dead deer found on the road in one year/total population, 3% known killed by vehicles (who knows how many make it off the road before dying).

I also read post-season deer populations are 51% higher than objectives. This is state-wide, so might not be the case for the northern 1/3, but interesting anyway.

Not telling you Wisconsin guys how you should or should not manage your wolves. Just showing what I was able to uncover about your wolves in about 10 mintues.

 

[mtmiller]

Schmalts, according to your chart, it looks like the deer population really took off after wolves were protected in the state of Wisconsin and are maintaining well above post-season objectives. Do you agree?

 

[noharleyyet]

Fess up Miller, Axl did the search didn't he?

 

[schmalts]

heres the deer population map. As you can see that the wolf habitat area is the lowest deer population and the fully developed farm country is where the deer population problem is.
http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/wildlife/hunt/deer/fall_deer_per_DR.htm

 

[schmalts]

Schmalts, according to your chart, it looks like the deer population really took off after wolves were protected in the state of Wisconsin and are maintaining well above post-season objectives. Do you agree?

Numbnuts, it has nothing to do with wolves. the population increase is in no place wolves live. So admit it, wolves do not live where deer populations increase. Compare my maps with the wolf habitat maps and you will see that.

 

[mtmiller]

Appears Buzz's aquantance was wrong. Pop. doubled in about 20 - 22 years instead of 15.

 

[JB]

Currently, deer herds in some units are well above goals -- so high, in fact, that our traditional hunting seasons and permit systems can't keep the herd size under control. Consequently, the hunting and nonhunting public needs to work with professional managers to consider alternatives. Clearly, some deer herds need to be reduced to a more manageable level. Changes in the hunting season, like those adopted in 19 units for this fall, will sometimes be necessary.

its a couple years old:
http://www.wnrmag.com/stories/1996/aug96/herd.htm

 

[schmalts]

Yep, and numbnuts, if you want to talk wolf population VS deer population impact you need to break the states herd population down only into units where the wolves live. Any child could have that much common sense.
Thanks JB, you reinforced my comments made to Buzz and his misinformed buddy. Those 19 units are the "earn a buck" units. The population problem has nothing to do with wolves and all to do with farmers and private landowners that are not practicing sound QDM. If you talk to guys who hunt in wolf country all you ever hear is them bitching about not seeing any deer. Unfortunatly the overpopulated deer area is no place for wolves.
Show me one quality hunting lease or outfitter selling in a wolf unit..... there isn't any because there isnt enough deer population that anyone would pay to hunt there. not a good example but just another point to show there is shit for deer in the wolf area.