Draft Elk Management Plan is out

[mtnkid85]

And people consider “ranch” hunts unsportsmanlike. Maybe we could just round them up into a corral. That would help success even more. I would rather get my nuts put in a vice while drinking bud light than partake in the “hunts” you just described

While I agree with you, its not exactly what I expect to get out of a "hunt", as ben pointed out, it is whats needing to be done. And quite honestly there are plenty of people out there who would be happy to go "pull the trigger" in exchange for a years worth of high quality protein.

Moving elk off private by putting pressure on the center pivots is what it is going to take to "Get the elk back on public" and we the hunters are the ones to do it.

What Im getting at, is especially on working properties where the owners are already putting in full days just trying to keep their operation running, the department needs to step in and provide someone to help manage the public hunters so that they are doing a more effective job at helping moving elk.
Yes, maybe they don't need to be setting up the tripod, but being in charge of getting guys in the correct areas when the time is right is whats really needed.

 

[Irishman]

Landowner fatigue I believe is a big reason for losing access to private land. Growing up before hunting became what it has become my family used to have out of state hunters visit every year and they looked forward to it. Now when hunting season comes they look forward to it being over. Being constantly barraged by hunters for 11 weeks or however long it is, landowners are hesitant to give any access for fear more people will ask.

Constant pressure on accessible lands also moves elk to private refuge. Currently we’ve tried adding tags and lengthening seasons. It hasn’t worked and won’t for reducing elk

Can't private landowners already dictate when people can hunt and how many people can hunt? Couldn't they already do what you're proposing, and allow only a short season on their land? And for that matter only allow x number of people per day? I thought that they could even dictate what species you can hunt.
I would imagine that the majority of people like the seasons the way they are, so why try to fight a battle you won't win? Maybe instead you could succeed in convincing private landowners to do what they already have the power to do, and have short seasons if they really want them.

 

[brockel]

Can't private landowners already dictate when people can hunt and how many people can hunt? Couldn't they already do what you're proposing, and allow only a short season on their land? And for that matter only allow x number of people per day? I thought that they could even dictate what species you can hunt.
I would imagine that the majority of people like the seasons the way they are, so why try to fight a battle you won't win? Maybe instead you could succeed in convincing private landowners to do what they already have the power to do, and have short seasons if they really want them.

Just because the landowner can dictate the length of hunting and how many on his land doesn’t mean it stops the public from banging on the ranch door or calling all hours of the day for 11 weeks. That’s the fatigue part

 

[mtmuley]

Moving elk off of private land is not an easy thing to do. On larger parcels elk have been accustomed to living and calving on the private land. Hard behavior to change. Even by shooting at them. mtmuley

 

[DFS]

Can't private landowners already dictate when people can hunt and how many people can hunt? Couldn't they already do what you're proposing, and allow only a short season on their land? And for that matter only allow x number of people per day? I thought that they could even dictate what species you can hunt.
I would imagine that the majority of people like the seasons the way they are, so why try to fight a battle you won't win? Maybe instead you could succeed in convincing private landowners to do what they already have the power to do, and have short seasons if they really want them.

I’ve seen the quality of hunt diminish to nothing. Look at hunter days per elk killed. Unfortunately or fortunately as hunters we are required to show a little restraint for the benefit of a species. I don’t think shooting or chasing every critter off public land by the end of season is acceptable management.

Most of the landowners I know have a season so short you will never hunt it, it wasn’t always like that. FWP likes your opinion more than mine so I don’t think you have a thing to worry about. More tags longer seasons I’m sure things will improve.

 

[Beignet]

Moving elk off of private land is not an easy thing to do. On larger parcels elk have been accustomed to living and calving on the private land. Hard behavior to change. Even by shooting at them. mtmuley

This is almost verbatim what a biologist & manager of a large ranch down your way has said to me.

Even if elk get shot at a few times a year on large chunks of private the living is still better than what they experience on a lot of public. Especially with long seasons and tons of pressure.

 

[Irishman]

Just because the landowner can dictate the length of hunting and how many on his land doesn’t mean it stops the public from banging on the ranch door or calling all hours of the day for 11 weeks. That’s the fatigue part

Doesn't a lot of the block management just have a book you sign in at the entrance to the property? They don't have to deal with any phone calls.
So if you were someone actually not allowing hunting on your land due to this fatigue, wouldn't you just not require phone calls. Put in the block management book hunting only until November 15th, sign in at the gate. Even add in what species they can hunt.
Shortening the season all over the state in the hope that a few landowners might decide to allow a few people to hunt is unlikely to fly.

 

[RobG]

This is almost verbatim what a biologist & manager of a large ranch down your way has said to me.

Even if elk get shot at a few times a year on large chunks of private the living is still better than what they experience on a lot of public. Especially with long seasons and tons of pressure.

Yes, it might be late for them, but we are training the elk to go to private lands at the beginning of the season with unlimited cow hunts on public. At least we can stop doing that.

 

[Irishman]

I’ve seen the quality of hunt diminish to nothing. Look at hunter days per elk killed. Unfortunately or fortunately as hunters we are required to show a little restraint for the benefit of a species. I don’t think shooting or chasing every critter off public land by the end of season is acceptable management.

Most of the landowners I know have a season so short you will never hunt it, it wasn’t always like that. FWP likes your opinion more than mine so I don’t think you have a thing to worry about. More tags longer seasons I’m sure things will improve.

I actually think that the adding of a muzzleloader season was ridiculous. However, it indicates that suggesting shortening seasons is a waste of time.

 

[brockel]

Doesn't a lot of the block management just have a book you sign in at the entrance to the property? They don't have to deal with any phone calls.
So if you were someone actually not allowing hunting on your land due to this fatigue, wouldn't you just not require phone calls. Put in the block management book hunting only until November 15th, sign in at the gate. Even add in what species they can hunt.
Shortening the season all over the state in the hope that a few landowners might decide to allow a few people to hunt is unlikely to fly.

Just because you don’t allow hunting doesn’t mean you aren’t constantly getting called and asked or people are stopping by constantly asking.

 

[DFS]

I actually think that the adding of a muzzleloader season was ridiculous. However, it indicates that suggesting shortening seasons is a waste of time.

Could be. If we don’t change course asap your kids grandkids or somewhere down the line better prepare to get out their checkbook to enjoy hunting. I have seen attitudes in eastern Montana change on mule deer hunting. This seems evident when they hold their local meetings.

 

[mtmuley]

Yes, it might be late for them, but we are training the elk to go to private lands at the beginning of the season with unlimited cow hunts on public. At least we can stop doing that.

This conditioning started a long, long time ago. mtmuley

 

[mtmuley]

This is almost verbatim what a biologist & manager of a large ranch down your way has said to me.

Even if elk get shot at a few times a year on large chunks of private the living is still better than what they experience on a lot of public. Especially with long seasons and tons of pressure.

And we have elk living year around where they never did before. Where I hunt I can count the number of times I've seen cow elk on public land in the last 20 years on three fingers. mtmuley

 

[DFS]

Doesn't a lot of the block management just have a book you sign in at the entrance to the property? They don't have to deal with any phone calls.
So if you were someone actually not allowing hunting on your land due to this fatigue, wouldn't you just not require phone calls. Put in the block management book hunting only until November 15th, sign in at the gate. Even add in what species they can hunt.
Shortening the season all over the state in the hope that a few landowners might decide to allow a few people to hunt is unlikely to fly.

Those areas are piss pounded harder than public land. If you don’t think landowners care or can’t see that you are wrong. Landowners unfortunately provide the only management in this state. I watched a whole haying operation shut down last Saturday for a family of Hungarian partridge and a father that was concerned they were disappearing from the landscape. Saying landowners don’t care is a joke with our management they are the only ones that do. Unfettered access will never happen on private land with good reason.

 

[cgasner1]

And people consider “ranch” hunts unsportsmanlike. Maybe we could just round them up into a corral. That would help success even more. I would rather get my nuts put in a vice while drinking bud light than partake in the “hunts” you just described

Oddly specific

 

[Deleted member 20812]

This is almost verbatim what a biologist & manager of a large ranch down your way has said to me.

Even if elk get shot at a few times a year on large chunks of private the living is still better than what they experience on a lot of public. Especially with long seasons and tons of pressure.

While this is true, three strand barbed wire is the best habitat there is, if you continue the same pattern they got you there well you’re #@)(*%* and you may as well accept it’s as good as it’ll ever get.

However, if you change that to where you don’t have the months of pressure on public land and SOME amount of pressure on private, you will eventually redistribute elk to some extent. We all know there are refuges that are untouchable, but that doesn’t mean the status quo is destined for eternity.

 

[Beignet]

While this is true, three strand barbed wire is the best habitat there is, if you continue the same pattern they got you there well you’re #@)(*%* and you may as well accept it’s as good as it’ll ever get.

However, if you change that to where you don’t have the months of pressure on public land and SOME amount of pressure on private, you will eventually redistribute elk to some extent. We all know there are refuges that are untouchable, but that doesn’t mean the status quo is destined for eternity.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t change the status quo at all, and believe this draft EMP is a big step in the right direction. Just wondering aloud how much good it’ll do unless private landowners allow an amount of pressure tantamount to what one would find currently on public. Can’t imagine too many folks going for that.

Like you said, any steps they take to get these critters back on public are going to have to coincide with a radical change in season structure and length. I’m just not sure the general public will ever stomach that kind of change. Hell, there’d certainly be a few people here on HT moaning that shorter seasons are somehow an attack on the second amendment or some nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 20812]

Just wondering aloud how much good it’ll do unless private landowners allow an amount of pressure tantamount to what one would find currently on public. Can’t imagine too many folks going for that.

Timing is likely more crucial than overall amount.

 

[antlerradar]

We have to make public land more appealing to elk than private.

With the proposed conservation leasing do you think it would be possible to put some center pivots planted in alfalfa on public?
joking of coarse, but seriously, you can make public more appealing to elk but you will never make it more appealing than third cutting irrigated alfalfa unless the alfalfa has people with rifles pointed at the elk.

 

[antlerradar]

Can't private landowners already dictate when people can hunt and how many people can hunt? Couldn't they already do what you're proposing, and allow only a short season on their land? And for that matter only allow x number of people per day? I thought that they could even dictate what species you can hunt.
I would imagine that the majority of people like the seasons the way they are, so why try to fight a battle you won't win? Maybe instead you could succeed in convincing private landowners to do what they already have the power to do, and have short seasons if they really want them.

Easier said than done.