Dont worry about the student loan forgiveness

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neffa3 said:
But she didn't pick swinging a hammer. My point Art-history didn't lean to her success. Could have been psy, or communications, or accounting. If she had a passion for XXXXX she could have followed it and excelled. (*this is a very odd point to make as I've never met this person, and if projecting all kinds of potential fallicies on her and her character... but I feel this is the appropriate medium for such outlandish claims...)
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Ah, gotcha. Yes I agree, if Art History hadn't been a degree should would have figured out another road. Totally agree to that point.
 
Interesting thought on skipping college. My college degrees have helped me earn a salary high enough to be considered a high income individual ineligible for Biden’s student loan relief. I wouldn’t be in this position without college.
 
beginnerhunter said:
Yeah, anyone would be stupid to refuse a no strings attached handout when offered. Doesn't mean the handout is a good thing. I didnt hand back my stimmie check even though i thought it was a bad idea at the time. "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."
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Yah except for the string where it still a debt. Nothing is free.
 
MTGomer said:
I know this is just a little anecdote but at my day job, there is myself and two others that do the same role.

Of the other two, one is 40ish, has a high school diploma and worked his way into it by starting at the company as a survey instrument operator, then surveyor, then land agent, and now doing what we do on the transmission siting/planning/regulatory stuff.

The other is a decade or so older and has an MBA. He’s also competent at his job, has a lot more experience in the role than the other guy, but I wouldn’t say he’s any more effective or productive.

That’s a big gap in education levels for the same outcome.

I think the whole “you gotta go to school if you ever want to be anything” mantra that kids so often hear needs to go away.
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What if your profession requires a degree to meet minimum qualifications to even be considered for employment?

You have no choice but to go to college.
 
A whole lot needs to change, as far as root causes I'm sure there are plenty. One that I can see is that high schools are rated not just by graduates but by how many students go on to further education. Knowing this the high schools really focus on that route as it's not beneficial for them or thier ratings/further funding to push kids into the trades, or to a trade school/apprenticeship instead of a college/university.

A lot of classmates went to college, I know many more that never graduated or are doing nothing with thier degrees than those who pursued let alone been successful in the field they got a degree in. People just going off to college really shouldn't be that much of a metric.
 
It is very hard to get to the highest income levels without college, but that fact doesn't mean everyone needs it. If you want to go, then go, and pay for it. No has issue with someone going to college and not using their degree. The only issue seems to be when people go, take out debt to do so, then don't pay that debt back.

I work in a profession that requires a degree. I make about what my BIL makes in the trades. I had to pay (albeit very little) and he had to suffer with very low wages for a long time, both had their "costs". I don't think either of our routes is wrong, but he wouldn't have excelled at my route, nor I at his.

However, looking back, I think I could have been pretty damn happy as an electrician.
 
wllm said:
She would never succeed in swinging a hammer... believe me. I just don't agree with this premise, our success is in part hard work but it's also opportunities in various forms.



I mean... trending that way kinda I guess? But ~55% of American's don't have a degree.

First two graphs combined = 55% of electorate Second graph = 45% of electorate

And then there are lots of folks with degrees that work in trades... I mean point being whatever Nancy and Mitch say I need a teacher for my kids, a nurse to take care of me, and truckers to literally make all commerce in my life work so I'm saying I think the distinction is contrived, esp because a nurse and a construction worker have a hell of a lot more in common than a construction worker and and IBanker. It's just trying to split up the working class to F-them in my mind.

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I agree the the Churchill quote on democracy. Though other democracies have done a better job of handling this allocation of talent issue... IMHO.

Example... UK/Europe.

You go to medschool out of HS, skip the BA/BS. It's 100% free, but when you get done you only 100-150k for primary care MDs, and like 200k for some specialists. This means it's way cheaper and a shorter path for someone to become a MD therefore they demand less pay, therefore it's a lot cheaper to see a MD and therefore way more feasible to have single payer medicine. (also you don't have insurance companies posting record profits and giving shareholders dividends)

They got the "slop" out of the system.

American's can change our systems, saying that people who voted either way among two crappy candidates don't work hard or whatever is stupid.
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Have EU colleges and unis seen a 50% increase in the number of salaried college administrators? Honest question. I do agree with ur point about streamlining medical education which ties into elite overproduction...

Lessening the burden of college expenses on students would be a noble goal if it weren't just transfering the cost onto taxpayers. I want to see reform on what colleges can spend before we make taxpayers foot the bill.

Also, unis are becoming less interested in critical thinking and free inquiry and increasingly just an instrument for indoctrination into an astroturfed psuedomorality. It's like if you, an atheist, paid taxes to fund an expensive state church and you were denied access to all major institutions without going through indoctrination.
 
Lots of interesting points on this thread. To me the travesty of the situation is all the people who didn't go after a college degree as they never imagined a freebie with the tuition. Those folks, and all the new suckers who will be willingly marching into college debt with the belief that either the situation that requires the great expense for a college degree has been fixed, or that they will get their tuition debt waived as well.
 
beginnerhunter said:
Lessening the burden of college expenses on students would be a noble goal if it weren't just transfering the cost onto taxpayers. I want to see reform on what colleges can spend before we make taxpayers foot the bill.
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But a highly educated workforce benefits society. There is a strong correlation between incomes (and in turn, taxes collected) and level of education. It’s a payment where we see tangible benefit.
 
SAJ-99 said:
But a highly educated workforce benefits society. There is a strong correlation between incomes (and in turn, taxes collected) and level of education. It’s a payment where we see tangible benefit.
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Two sides to that coin I feel. All the education in the world won't help anyone without work ethic, common sense and or experience.
 
beginnerhunter said:
Have EU colleges and unis seen a 50% increase in the number of salaried college administrators? Honest question. I do agree with ur point about streamlining medical education which ties into elite overproduction...
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No idea to be honest, but it's a totally different system so hard to say. My suspicion would be it's not even a thing because it's just not how it's setup.

beginnerhunter said:
Lessening the burden of college expenses on students would be a noble goal if it weren't just transfering the cost onto taxpayers. I want to see reform on what colleges can spend before we make taxpayers foot the bill.
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Agreed. There are two parts to the equation and this measure is focused on one and not the other... though to some extent student loans are capped and lots of private servicers are out of the business so "the market" is kinda changing. It's the whole idea of how do you deal with mistakes in the early 90s and then also provide go forward fixes.

But I would like to see more declarative fixes, ie no "for profit" anything in education.

beginnerhunter said:
Also, unis are becoming less interested in critical thinking and free inquiry and increasingly just an instrument for indoctrination into an astroturfed psuedomorality. It's like if you, an atheist, paid taxes to fund an expensive state church and you were denied access to all major institutions without going through indoctrination.
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:confused: Experiences vary by institution, personally I've never seen this, the institution I attended very much had critical thinking and free inquiry as a cornerstone.

My 2 cents is thats a Tucker C/ Bill O'Reily sound bite, but maybe it is true at some places. 🤷‍♂️

Might also be a perspective thing lol... for instance I think Genesis book and versus is not accurate to our understanding of the universe and if you're unwilling to learn about evolution which is a fundamental precursor to any understating of biology/ecology than you might feel that way.

My grandfather was a minister and my grandmother was a professor of Anthropology so I'm comfortable with the juxtaposition of faith and science.
 
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