Dogs from a "non-breeder"

[wytex]

Try to find a pup that the breeder is not giving registration papers, they are cheaper .

 

[Horse]

I wouldn't be scared of getting a lab from a non-breeder kennel. Just ask for pedigree to see history of grandparents. Look for OFA cert. in the parents and grandparents. This will help show you that the parents hips are good.

 

[MikeMaland]

I have had both, good pedigrees with many champions and farmer bred dogs.
All have been good.
Watch the parents work, for a good waterfowl dog I look for a calm and chill dog at the house but turns it on when working. Absolutely No whiners.
Good luck and have fun.

 

[SFC B]

I am kind of on the outside in a little bit on this. I had a Golden as a child and always wanted my kids to have the same. When we finally settled here in CO my kids were 5 and 11 and timing was perfect. I had never even thought about bird hunting at that point. We looked for pet quality dogs with good health histories. We found a family near us that had both the parents and raised all the dogs with the family and their kids. My wife picked our girl Daisy and she is simply the best dog period. The only thing I regret is that she has always had prey drive and by the time I got into waterfowl she was already 8 She will be 11 this June and is still in really good shape (the 4 year old Westie in the house keeps her hoping). She is a pretty trim 70# (for a house dog) and at the last check up the Doc mistakenly thought she was only 8 yo.... love my girl BTW...the puppy pics were her first night with us

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

i have bred non-akc labs for many years,,{mainly as affordable family dogs} but many have been trained to hunt.alot of breeders will boast about there bloodlines ect,but it really depends on the dog to a certain degree,,when we have pups we sell ours in the 5-800 ball park,,the akc paperwork is a pain and is just a piece of paper that doesnt guarantee a thing,,some labs do have some inherint issues,,{hips,eyes,ect}but papers dont mean they are perfect,,a lab worked hard could easily get hip problems at 8 years,yet you could have another go 12 + years with no issues.i have had folks come for our pups as far as north calif,,but do not any lab pups right now,,we have gone towards labradoodles and goldadors now,,, if interested p m me..we have nothing right now,but maybe by summer i might have some//they are my family,so i only breed them as a side thing when they naturally go into heat.

 

[mplane72]

Best lab I've ever had was a discount runt from a breeder. That was back in my college days but could'nt swing his price at the time. I left him my number and he called me later offering me the "runt" at a big discount. He was a sorry looking sight as he had been whipped on by the rest of the litter. Looked more like a run over brown possum. He turned into a very healthy, friendly and smart retriever.
I've seen a lot of good dogs come from "non-breeders". You just need to do your research.

 

[diamond hitch]

I raised wpg for many years through all of the rules with AKC. I got really sick of show dog people and trial people. I refuse to register my litters with AKC so I can avoid the looneys. I only raise litters when someone in the family needs a dog. I sell the surplus at a reasonble price, instate, and if I don't learn to dislike you at the first meeting. The benefits of getting old!

 

[tim629]

labs are one I would vet especially hard.

the breeder we are getting a GSP from in PA has labs too, all smaller build and working dogs, should last longer (in theory). i work on farms & wife, 2 sisters and my parents are all in the vet industry see some nice labs but also see some backyard labs that just destroy their joints i'm assuming due to genetics & overfeeding

i wouldn't worry as much about the papers from a breeder as the papers from the vet. maybe see if the breeder would give you permission to speak with their vet: are they up to date on all shots, any joint problems, temperament when at the vet (does that match to the temperament you saw from the parents at the house of the person breeding)

 

[tim629]

i will add i don't generally advocate for papered dogs but labs are so prolific that I think it's safest to go to the shelter for a lab/mix for a pure house dog or go to a reputable breeder for something of hunting lines, or talk with the owner and have them do some testing of their labs for whatever is common in labs

 

[Davetats51]

I’ve gotten two labs from non breeders, paid $350 for one and $400 for the other. Both are great family and hunting dogs for waterfowl and upland birds. Both times I made sure I got to meet the parents of the puppies to see how they looked and acted, I also looked to see how the puppies were raised and taken care of before I got there. if All that checks out chances are you will end up with a perfectly good hunting partner! Generally from what I’ve seen is that most labs that are well taken care of, and given at least the basics of obedience and retriever training turn out to be great dogs.

 

[MTLabrador]

My lab, Sitka, came from a family friend that is a non-breeder, which I generally wouldn’t do. However, his mother is owned by a good friend of mine and I had hunted with her for years and been very impressed with her, and I knew she came from a very good breeder (Diamond R in Ennis). His father came from a very good breeder in Nebraska. Without knowing that background I would have went to a breeder instead.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

I have a lab from a reputable breeder who was involved in hunt tests, big waterfowl hunter, she came with all the health certifications, I got to meet the parents, breeder had a training facility, etc. I did not pay anywhere near $1700 for my lab. That much money is nuts for a lab. You can get one of them fancy German versatile dogs for that much

 

[DaveAZ]

Try to connect with a local retriever club, they can point you toward some good dogs with small breeders that you wont find websites for likely. My pointing lab that just turned a year I payed 800 for, he was a fairly good deal, but he came from a small 2 dog breeder from northeast montana. I actually found him in the newspaper and after reviewing the bloodlines and a long phone call, decided to get one of his pups. I also got a male, which usually are cheaper and easier to get, which is great when you prefer males. He is only my second dog, but he is incredibly smart and easy to train. If you were closer I would point you in their direction, they had a litter about a month ago.

A little late in the thread but just joined recently. I appreciate that idea you shared about checking with local dog clubs who can point out some smaller breeders who may not have websites.
I'd like to get a pointer in two years so this will give me some time. Years ago when I was in college I volunteered my time helping to train labs for competitions. I learned a lot but I grew up pheasant hunting so I'm more interested in pointers. Taught my 4 kids violin and involved in Phoenix Youth Symphony. Now that they're grown I've got extra time on my hands. My kids are also excited about building preference points and trying out this new sport. Been on one elk hunt with my boys and now I'm thinking Quail and a nice bird dog.
Wish I would have found this sight sooner. Can't tell you how much I appreciate the tip!

 

[seeth07]

I'm also late to finding this thread but would like to chime in for those still using it as a source of information for your future pups!

My wife and I have a golden retriever that we bred a total of three times now. We take the entire process very seriously and when we looked for the stud the first time, it took us many months until we were finally happy with our choice and have used the same male every time as the result each time was good. The process in selling the pups has been so good that by word of mouth, this 3rd litter which is almost ready to be born is already almost completely sold.

Ok so that's a little background and now here is what I know to maybe help those with this same general question.

Where you get your dog from DOES NOT automatically translate to a great dog. Just guessing here and making a point: 50 percent of a dogs ability is genetic, 50 percent is the owner and training.

Going the high breeder route with champion hunting bloodlines doesn't actually mean the dog is a great hunting dog. The training and requirements for the field trial to get the title isn't the same as a dog sitting in your hunting blind and retrieving a downed duck. In fact, I've seen so many champion titled dogs get their title for breeding and then never actually hunt.

Be extremely careful when looking at breeders. Breeders need to make money to keep going and when each litter can net them 10 to 20k, it's easy to see how greed can overtake the breeding process. I used to work for a breeder that I thought was a great guy until I saw what he did. His females were money making machines to him and that was it. It sent them to a trainer to get their champion title and then back to the kennel they went for the rest of their lives to just deliever pups.

In my opinion your decision to buy from a breeder, whether it's small like my unestablished 1 dog litter every 2 years or a huge place pushing out litters monthly, needs to be based on care and well being of the pups health. This means that you want to go to the breeder and ensure each litter and dog is being properly cared for. You want to see them as being house dogs or in extremely well maintained kennels with ample space to run. It you head to a breeder and see 6 dogs lined up in 8x8 cages, run away. You want to see every dog has clean water. Another thing to look for is health certifications of both adults of the litter. For golden retrievers the only health concerns common in the bred are hip and elbows. All three generations of our litter have certified hips and elbows. I can't tell you this for each bred, you'll have to do your own research. One last thing I would strongly suggest you look for is a statement like this in the puppy sale contract "If for any reason and at any time of the dogs life you cannot take care of it or do not wish to keep the puppy, call us and we will take it back. You can never take this dog to a pound or dog shelter". Its not something most breeders do because they don't want to deal with the hassle of it but the ones that do show you they are serious about their breeding process and care the most about their dogs and where they go. Heck my wife is Facebook friends with every single owner we sold a puppy to and sees new pictures of her "kids" all the time lol

 

[Don Fischer]

I know the most sure fire way to get a dog that is AKC certified for physical wellness is to get it through a breeder. I'm looking at getting my first hunting dog, a lab, for the (majority) duck hunting I do as well as upland bird hunting. In a perfect world I'd 100% would get one from a breeder but with the quotes I've gotten being over $1700, I'm not sure if I can financially swing that this year.

It sounds like it can be a crap shoot getting a pup from an alternative source. The lack of guarantee for long lasting hips and overall physical wellness is my greatest concern. Anyone have any experience with getting dogs from "non-breeders"?

If you take the pedigree of the $1700 dog and the $400 dog, often you'll find a lot of the same dogs in them. The guy selling the $1700 dog is probably not gonna sell all the pup's to guy's that will put titles on them, some of those pup's go to guy's that just like to hunt. That does not lower the quality of the pup. The great E Setter, Takoa Mt Sunrise came out of pretty obscure parents, they never set the world on fire much other than Sunrise. Sunrise was trialed a lot by a pro handler and won a lot. But maybe a big secret to his name was all the winner's he produced. To get that many winner's he was bred a lot! Think about it. Take a good backyard dog and breed it enough and get trialers to buy the pup's and there are going to be a number of winner's! Even to $400 dog bred to another $400 dog will likely produce a few winner's if the pup's are in the right hands to begin with! I worked on a house in alaska years ago for an outdoor writer. He had a young Lab he said he'd paid $5000 for. Possibly one of the dumbest dog's I ever saw but, that same dog in different hands may have been impressive. Buy a puppy from the most expensive litter you can find and getting a national ch is a crap shoot! Buy a pup that is a left over no one want's and you could maybe turn it into a nat ch. The famous Guard Rail was a left over unwanted pup. Then a guy came along and saw something in him he liked. The rest is history. Great trial dog and great producer. Buying a puppy is a crap shoot!

All those well bred pup's have to go somewhere and one might go to the guy down the street that just want's a hunting dog. Breeding is all there but the owner had no vision's of greatness! He has a litter with it and he'll probably get $400 for a pup! But the breeding is still there!

 

[Don Fischer]

One more thing slipped my mind. Years ago I did trial some. Knew a guy that also liked trialing. His dog was a spayed GSP female he got out of the dog pound. D*mn she was hard to beat! He Finished her out a champion while she was young!

 

[KB_]

You can get a dog from the dog pound and with enough love an training, will be an excellent pet/hunting dog. I got a Foxhound "I think" from the pound recently, an while their is likely not a whole lot of prey drive, she gets that sniffer going and she can find anything she wants. She also house trained up pretty quickly, but will test your patience, typical hound attitude. If you put the time into a pound hound or a pound lab or a pound retriver, I think you would be surprised.

 

[Labman]

If they don’t test for EIC (and ensure they aren’t breeding 2 EIC dogs) I would run. Pretty big deal that doesn’t seem to get the attention hips do.

Exercise-induced collapse - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Irrelevant]

My wife runs our local shelter and they do get good hunting dogs in from time to time, three friends picked them up from there and all three turned into good hunters (one is an exceptional chukar dog). They even had a really nice setter pup roll through (kind of wish I'd jumped on that), but generally the real hunters are fair and few between in the shelter. Mostly pit, lab, and shepherd mixes.

 

[Elmacho]

I have had and trained a few over the years. Your best bet is to look to a hunting breeder or a hunt test (as in AKC hunt tests) breeder. The AKC field trial breeders ask top $$ and those dogs can be a handful, but not always(think magnum loads- these dogs are really hard chargers). Look to the pedigree for lineage of MH(master hunter) or maybe the filed trial backrounds- AFC, NAFC etc......if you see a lot of these designations in the pedigree, chances are you are looking at a very good hunting prospect. I'd stay away from the CH (Champion) designations, as its a show dog designation.

Try Grady Istre in Lompoc if he is still around. Steve Stevens outta Phelan, CA or Paul Cacciatori in Chino, CA- all really good Lab guys.

I would not rule out the drahthaar........temperament of a lab, but points and tracks feather and fur really well. Almost as good as a lab in water- great combo dogs.