Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?

[Delw]

I am trying to figure you guys out.

do you want all roads completely gone from the national forrest?

Or Just ATVS?

seems that other vehicles can drive up and down the forrest service roads so why not bann them also. they cause just as much damage if not more that atv's due to there weight during the rainy season.

And where do we stop if we ban all forrest service roads?
do we stop and tear up the highways that go through them also?

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Absolutley right there Del! I always follow all trails legal to ride on and don't use my ATV for hunting. I do use it if I'm going back in a few areas which are 15 miles or better or to pack game if I can use it on a legal trail.

All these guys that complain about ATVs drive there 4 wheel drive trucks (which I have also but don't complain about)as close to there Hunting grounds as possible and would drive them up anything to get as close to a downed animal as possible. I understand there are 100s of Idiots that Hunt from them, go off trails and have no respect for the Wilderness and it makes me sick to see these people too! But lumping eveyone in to the fatass atv thing is very wrong. It's just like saying all Enviromenalists are worthless tree huggers!

 

[Ithaca 37]

The less roads the better the hunting is. I don't think ATV's should be allowed anywhere except on roads that are open to larger vehicles like cars or trucks. I think the percentage of ATV riders who break the law and ride unethically is greater than 50%. Almost all of them will go off roads or trails to retrieve game. Most of them will follow any ATV tracks they see that go off roads or trails and claim they thought it was an established trail. I think most of them would rather ride around on their ATV than actually get off and hike 400 yards to hunt. I think most of them (more than 50%) have no regard for other hunters on foot and don't care if they ruin anyone else's hunt. Face it, most of them are lazy and have just found a new way to extend their road hunting. Every time I say "most" I mean more than 50% of them.

ATVs are the worst thing that has happened to hunting in the last twenty years and I think most of the people who ride them are selfish, lazy, unethical, rude people who don't care about what's best for wildlife, hunting or other hunters.

As for forest service roads; there are too many miles of them already. The repair backlog is over 5 BILLION DOLLARS. It's foolish to build anymore if the existing ones can't be maintained. Some areas of Idaho have more than three miles of roads in every square mile of forest. That's insane!!!! I'd say that easily 25% of existing FS roads should be closed, plowed up and planted with native vegetation. No new roads should be built unless they are going to be closed as soon as the timber sale is done. There should be no new timber sales that lose money. Forest fires should be allowed to burn themselves out.

 

[Delw]

The less roads the better the hunting is. I don't think ATV's should be allowed anywhere except on roads that are open to larger vehicles like cars or trucks.

I agree with that and thats the law here in az along with many other states.

I think the percentage of ATV riders who break the law and ride unethically is greater than 50%. Almost all of them will go off roads or trails to retrieve game.Most of them will follow any ATV tracks they see that go off roads or trails and claim they thought it was an established trail.

See thats a problem with the game and fish and forrest service not pointing out the difference between tracks and road. Guys here in AZ in regular full sized trucks will follow any 2 track impression and its legal(to an extent) Ive seen one Game and fish guy give a ticket to one guy for doing this and a week later the same guy asked another game and fish guy if this was a legal road to drive on he said yes. Theres a fine line on what consist of a road between different indivduals.

I think most of them would rather ride around on their ATV than actually get off and hike 400 yards to hunt.

you say this because you just see them driving, you dont know where they are going etc. maybe they just want to drive up that road and check it out glassing then leave. Maybe they drive up there hoping that roads leads them to the other side of the canyon and it doesnt so they turn around(wrong turn wrong road).

Where I hunt in the kaibab I do this all the time with certain spots, I might know of a few animlas that hang out on the side of the hill. I go to see if they are there if they arent I leave and goto another spot that I know of, certain times of the day I drive around looking for particular spots where I know animals frequent at those times, sometimes I just go in there to see if anything else has been aorund.

then there are times that I just park and start walking usually if I am after a particular animal.

I think most of them (more than 50%) have no regard for other hunters on foot and don't care if they ruin anyone else's hunt.

if they drove a vehicle which is legal by state law you would still be upset. you shouldnt hunt so close to the roads

Face it, most of them are lazy and have just found a new way to extend their road hunting.

ok do you hunt with a scoped rifle? why that extends your range by a few hundred yards does this mean your also lazy and have found a new way to extend your hunting?

ATVs are the worst thing that has happened to hunting in the last twenty years and I think most of the people who ride them are selfish, lazy, unethical, rude people who don't care about what's best for wildlife, hunting or other hunters.

I wont agree with this, The worst thing that has happened to hunting in the last 20 years is the population boom, all the house's in the outlying areas, people wanting to be one with nature but have there city way of life ie malls stores lots of houses etc.

As for forest service roads; there are too many miles of them already. The repair backlog is over 5 BILLION DOLLARS. It's foolish to build anymore if the existing ones can't be maintained. Some areas of Idaho have more than three miles of roads in every square mile of forest. That's insane!!!!

its that way in AZ as well. you can walk 1.2 mile with out running into another road.

I'd say that easily 25% of existing FS roads should be closed, plowed up and planted with native vegetation.

I will agree with that figure.

No new roads should be built unless they are going to be closed as soon as the timber sale is done. There should be no new timber sales that lose money. Forest fires should be allowed to burn themselves out.

I also agree with that.


Oh yeah.
for the record. I use my dads ATV from time to time mainly to scout and kill yotes, this allows me a quick way to pick out bigger animals and not beat the heck out of my truck.
Since the roads are there and until they are closed I am going to use them. Why shouldnt I?
I want a big animal when I get drawn and I will cover as much territory as I can useing any legal means to do so.
I dont intentually break the law. I am not lazy and I dont have a fat ass


Delw

 

[Ithaca 37]

"ok do you hunt with a scoped rifle? why that extends your range by a few hundred yards does this mean your also lazy and have found a new way to extend your hunting?"

I wouldn't say I walk any less because I have a scope. I still have to walk up to any animal I shoot when retrieve it, even though I might shoot it from a little further away.

I'm glad we agree on so many things.

 

[Muledeer4me]

Good post's guy's.
I think when someone try's so hard to lump all of any group into a certin mold it looses it impact on what the real problem is.
When you see someone riding an ATV during hunting season you don't know what or where they are going or how they plan on hunting.
Most of my friends that use them ,use them to access there hunting area from camp instead of using there truck.
I have only talked to a few unhappy rider's that havent liked the new restriction's,all the other hunter's have been supportive and even expresed the need to extend them to other unit's.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

I've got a question for the Quadraphobics (fear of getting off a quad and walking) , why is it everyone who owns an ATV claims to only use them to get to the end of the road , get off and start hunting , right ?
Then why is it I never see them parked at the end of the roads ?
With all the ATV's out there , every other road should have one parked at the end . I see dozens of guys riding around looking for that mysterious starting point but very few of them ever seem to find it .
Bottom line is this ; You get on them and you stay on them .

 

[Ithaca 37]

"Bottom line is this ; You get on them and you stay on them ."

Ben, That's exactly right. Anyone who's ever road hunted in a pickup truck knows how hard it is to get outta the nice warm comfortable truck and start walking. For most, it's too tempting to stay in the truck and keep driving. Same thing with ATV's They'd rather ride a couple more miles in hopes of seeing some game from the road than get off and walk a couple hundred yards. It's human nature and it takes discipline to overcome it-------just like too much fast food. You can tell who the fast food addicts are by watching who rides by you on the ATV's.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Don't get me wrong , I love seeing the Quadraphobics hunting the roads to death all day long , it just means more animals on the mountains where I am . As long as they keep them on the roads the threat to game is minimal .
The problems are with the lazy slobs who just have to ride to the top of the ridge to glass or just have to push their physical ability (throttle-thumb stress) to extend the road another hundred yards up the canyon .
If a person wants to be lazy , fine . But be lazy on the road !

You're right Ithaca , it's human nature to make ourselves more comfortable , ATV's , 45' motor homes with satelite dish , microwave oven and blender , now that's hunting . It's just not my kind of hunting . Give me a wall tent , a good pair of boots and a day pack , and if I don't cross a road all day I'm in heaven .
Some people go to the gym , I go to the mountains .

 

[1_pointer]

I agree with Ithaca's first post in this topic. IMO, we will be seeing many more road closures than new roads, especially so on USFS lands. The Wasatch-Cache NF in UT will be closing up to 40% of the roads in many areas.

 

[Muledeer4me]

I have been out hunting the last two week-end's and I saw no one riding off any road's or trail's with an ATV.
Labor day week-end there seemed to be quite a few people out with ATVs, as we saw quite a few camps with ATV on friday night when we were driving in,but we didn't run into anyone after we parked our rig and started hunting the rest of the week-end.
We saw alot of doe's and smaller buck's ,two really nice big boy's and a sow with two cub's.
All after we parked our rig.
Just this last week-end I saw one ATV on a road,and we glassed one other guy out hunting but ran into no other hunters in the field.
We saw alot of deer ,did a number of stalk's and had a great time.


"You can tell who the fast food addicts are by watching who rides by you on the ATV's. "


ROFLMAO ,we are usually out hiking before light and not back untill after dark , maybe that's the difference in why some people see so many ATVs and other's don't.

Anyone that is still in camp or on the road by the time it's light enough to gauge the size of someone butt or be able to tell what type of food they eat ,might not be the great white hunter they are trying to pass thereself off as. LOL

 

[cjcj]

Good one MD! if these Daniel Boones are so far back in the woods, how in the hell are they counting all of the ATV`s? and why are they checking out some dudes ass?

 

[Ithaca 37]

In Idaho you can be up on a ridge or hillside and watch the ATV's down below in the valley like ants at a picnic. Bird hunting, we're often on our way out by mid-afternoon and get a close enough look when we see them on the roads to know they've been hitting the fast food pretty hard. I'm surprised anyone would even try to defend ATV's and the road hunters who ride them. Notice what 1 pointer said up above in his post? That's happening everywhere, finally, and I hope I've had some small part in raising public awareness of what a disgusting development ATVs have been. You think all these ATV crackdowns and road closures are happening because only a tiny percentage of ATV riders are unethical? I used to think that maybe someday I'd get an ATV to ride up roads that would last longer if full sized vehicles stayed off them, but I've seen so much anti-ATV sentiment that I don't even want to pull one around on a trailer now. I'll just walk up the marginal roads, I'll just restrict my hunting more or walk further, rather than be associated with the ATV crowd. They've given hunters a black eye.

 

[feclnogn]

Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?

Actually yes, especially during hunting season.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Today was the last day to provide comment to the FS for their new rules on ATVs.

They got my comments, calling for bans on all the law breaking Fat-Assed ATV riders.

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

It's such a small money maker for the US. I'm sure they will ban them completley along with Snowmobiles. The Trailer Industry has evolved around making trailers to put them inside them now!
It ain't going away so get used to it. Not to mention the towns who make $$$ for tourism when these guys visit and ride their trails. Go up to Wallace Idaho and see how many 100s and 100s of miles of trails they have and check out how much revenue it brings a piss ass mining town!

Without it they would be dead. I'm not condoning it, but it's become a sad truth out west and I don't see it going away.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Del,

Didn't you, in another post, mention that it was ok for you to take your ATV off road "just to pack out game"? And despite Travel Maps from the agency, you "knew" it was OK, as you checked with some Fish and Game guy???

 

[Wapiti Slayer]

Didn't you mention you also have ATVs? I bet you have never used them for Hunting or anything close to it!

 

[Delw]

Hey Del,

Didn't you, in another post, mention that it was ok for you to take your ATV off road "just to pack out game"? And despite Travel Maps from the agency, you "knew" it was OK, as you checked with some Fish and Game guy???

yes I did ,we dont have atv travel maps


Delw

 

[BuzzH]

Del said, "yes I did ,we dont have atv travel maps"

Uhhh, you're wrong. There are travel plan maps for every NF in Arizona.

Head to any NF office.