Do you guys really believe that all ATV riders break the law?

[Delw]

Really never knew that, never seen them on my NF maps either. but then again I just look at the map for roads.

got to also remember I asked before I went to get my elk, I wouldnt have done it if I didnt get the ok.

I dont need to goto a NF office cause I very rarely use my dads quad.

 

[BuzzH]

cj,

Check with the FS, you're full of crap...

 

[Ithaca 37]

cjcj, "It has always been perfectly legal to drive "offroad" to pick up a dead critter[deer/elk/lope/etc.in AZ, most hunters use a 4x4 truck, an ATV does 1/10th of the damage or no damage at all when retrieving wild game. and thats a fact."

Can you just take a little time to verify that with a couple of FS offices in AZ? You say it's legal and Buzz says it's not. If it's not legal there are probably many hunters who aren't aware they are breaking the law. This is a good place to start getting the word out.

 

[Muledeer4me]

"In Idaho you can be up on a ridge or hillside and watch the ATV's down below in the valley like ants at a picnic. Bird hunting, we're often on our way out by mid-afternoon and get a close enough look when we see them on the roads to know they've been hitting the fast food pretty hard. I'm surprised anyone would even try to defend ATV's and the road hunters who ride them."


So really what it boils down to is that you can't stand the legal use of ATVs.
If you are up on a ridge or on your way out at mid-afternoon
and they are in the vally riding ,how is it harming your hunt?

When you are heading out at mid-afternoon how is it that you know what these other people are doing?
Could they also be comming back,or just heading up again?
If you havent seen a violation it might be that that person isn't guilty of anything other then having the gall to be riding or driving around on the same public land you are.


If using a legal open road and looking around during day light hour's make's everyone a Road Hunting slob or a fat assed ATV rider
What would that make the guy doing all the looking?
Maybe someone should do more hunting and less checking out of the passing butt's of the other's guy's on ATV's!!!!!

I would be real worried about Steve if he starting giving me girth statis of all the men riding around on ATVs,when he said he was going out hunting.

 

[Ithaca 37]

MD, Don't bother me. If you don't already know the answers to most of those questions maybe you're not paying attention when you're road hunting. You probably think all the anti-ATV sentiment and crackdowns by regulatory agencies on ATVs are because only a tiny percentage of ATV riders are unethical and doing anything illegal. It's taken a lot of abuses to get gummint agencies to start cracking down on ATVs. You're a big part of the problem. How about posting that picture of you retreiving your antelope with the ATV again?

 

[cjcj]

Buzz you are a WRONG1 I don`t need to check anything. Because i KNOW! all i need is another uninformed guy from Wyoming trying to tell me how things are in AZ. Next time i have a game warden helping me load an elk up in a truck, in the middle of a roadless meadow ,i`ll take a picture for you. in the meantime [[A.R.S. 17-454] F.Y.O.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Pretty funny how the post asks if "All ATV riders break the law", and we get to at least two of them (Del and CJ) who claim they do something, and don't know exactly if they are breaking the law or not (by checking managing agency travel plans), and do not indicate an interest in even knowing IF they are breaking the law or not.

It kind of seems like we have the answer to Del's question, and the answer is PROBABLY.

I am not picking on Del and CJ, as I think their comments are pretty representative to the other 99% of the ATV riders. And I think the unwillingness to check with the Agency to find out if they are breaking the law is the reason we are now needing to ban them, as people who use ATVs are unwilling to obey the laws.

So yes, all ATV riders break the law.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey CJ and Del,

From the AZ Hunting Regulations.....

In unit 2B http://www.gf.state.az.us/h_f/hunting_units_2b.shtml

Concerns: The most common complaints from landowners deal with off-road driving. It is illegal to drive off-road with any vehicle, including ATV's, on State and BLM lands. Also, criminal charges can be filed for damages to private land from off-road driving. Please help us to keep all of these areas open to hunting by respecting both the land and the landowners.

In 17B...

Hunters should always pick up litter, leave gates as they are found (usually closed), and never drive off road in any vehicle, including ATV's.

In 6A....

Keep in mind it is unlawful to operate motor vehicles cross country during a hunt, with the exception of doing so to recover an animal that is down and tagged .

In 19A...

ATV habitat damage has led to the Forest Service closing most of the roads to the Verde River. As with all roads on the Prescott National Forest, if a road is not marked with a road number, it is designated as closed. Please observe all Forest Service road closures.

In 3C....

Hunting with the aid of a vehicle, including ATV's, is not legal . Please help minimize damage to wet roads. You are liable for any damage or ruts you create. The Forest Service and the Game and Fish Department consider this habitat damage.

And none of these statements over ride the Agency that manages the land's authority....

Which Nat'l forests would be good to check with?

 

[Ithaca 37]

EG, Thanks. I hope del and cjcj can add more info, too.

[ 09-14-2004, 11:55: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]

 

[Ten Bears]

This all breaks down to envy..... You want to impress me with your prowess IT/EG/FCB, lets pick up some sharp rocks and heavy sticks and lets do some hunting....... Otherwise, you guys are just blowing a lot of hot air.

EG, the Fish & Game survey must just be for down there because it was never put out up here.

 

[cjcj]

It has always been perfectly legal to drive "offroad" to pick up a dead critter[deer/elk/lope/etc.in AZ, most hunters use a 4x4 truck, an ATV does 1/10th of the damage or no damage at all when retrieving wild game. and thats a fact.

 

[cjcj]

Gunner what don`t you and Buzz understand about Its ok to drive off road to pick up a dead critter [thats tagged] ? thats all i said and i stand by it because its legal and always has been legal, and you can try to pick on me all you want, hell Bring it on! but you have already verified what Buzz said i was full of crap about [legal to drive off road to pickup game] So as ten says you guys are just blowing hot air, plus i do not own an ATV, Man you guys are always ragging people about their ability "comprehend" i suggest you go back and look at what i said. Just for your info i am always very carefull and respectfull when i drive over meadows or sensative terrain when i retreive my critters.

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

Assuming you are using Federal land (BLM or FS), where do you "know" it is legal to drive your pick-up off road to pick up game???

I posted a half dozen excerpts from AZDFG, and given that they have ZERO authority to allow off road use of Federal Lands, it appears that even AZDFG says you Can't in most states.

How do you know it is legal???

 

[cjcj]

You posted several excerpts about driving offroad, which has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. [to pick up killed wild game] why did you bother? Everyone knows its not ok or legal do just drive around making your own roads! and where did i or Delw or anyone else ever say that? All i said was its "legal" to go pickup your dead critters [and it is?] Correct? let me just hear you admit that ok? I already proved its "legal" [A.R.S.17-454]

 

[DEADI270]

Guy's I have a question? My dad has been an avid hunter all of his life. He has a trophy room bigger than a lot of peoples houses. He has managed to kill over 50 elk and 2 Grand slams (sheep)in his lifetime, and has packed most of them out on his back and a few of them on a horse. ATV's didn't even exist when he did most of his hunting. He is 5'7" tall and about 140 LBS (not a fat ass ATV hunter). He is now in his 70's but really enjoys hunting each fall. However, his knees and health are starting to let him down a bit so he has bought an ATV. Mostly he rides it on roads that are open to car traffic just to save beating up his pickup but there are a few trails that are open to ATV's (but not to cars) that he will ride. He still gets off his ATV and hikes to the extent that he can.
Tell me why a guy like that should be called a fat ass ATV rider, branded a law breaker and told by some wet nose greenhorn wanta be hunter/environmentalist that he shouldn't be allowed to hunt any more! Who died and made you guys King.
For those who are wondering, I dont have and ATV and have no use for one. Where I hunt they are useless. I just think that with few common sence law's (that are enforced) people should be able to hunt in different way's.
I just think it is very arrogent for anybody to think that their way is the only way and anybody who thinks different is an idiot. Thats how Dictators are born.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Originally posted by cjcj:
Everyone knows its not ok or legal do just drive around making your own roads! and where did i or Delw or anyone else ever say that? All i said was its "legal" to go pickup your dead critters [and it is?]

CJ,
How do you "know" it is not legal to drive around making your own roads, and yet you claim it is "legal" to go pickup your dead critters (with a pick-up)?

Do you know this by using a FS Travel Map, or do you know this because you have always thought that way???

Is this what you keep referring to?

You may not operate a motorized vehicle cross-country (ARS 17-454, 455)

How does that make it "legal" if ARS 17-454 says you many NOT operate a vehicle cross country?

I think you just proved that leaving a road is illegal in AZ.


From AZFGD website...

Unit 41

OHV Use: Most of Unit 41 mule deer inhabit large flat areas that can be negotiated by various types of OHV vehicles. Most of the land in Unit 41 is under the jurisdiction of the BLM. Vehicles are restricted to existing roads, trails and large desert washes on BLM land. Travel across country is not permitted under any circumstance. Operators of OHV's are also responsible for damage to native plants. These regulations are enforced by both the Arizona Game and Fish Department and BLM Rangers.

There is a small amount of state land scattered throughout the unit. OHV use on state land is restricted to existing trails and roads, however, a vehicle may be used to retrieve a downed and legally taken big game animal on or off road. Operators of OHV's retrieving downed big game are still responsible for damage to native plants.

 

[JoseCuervo]

And in the Tonto National Forest

Off-Highway VehiclesThis USDA Forest Service has many primitive, seldom maintained National Forest System roads that are generally available for OHV use, including ATV's.

With two exceptions, travel off all National Forest System Roads is prohibited .

Campgrounds and other recreation sites are maintained for passenger vehicles and are off limits to ATV's, etc.

In conjunction with Arizona State Parks OHV Program,
the Tonto National Forest has established two areas for the dedicated use of OHV's.

They Are:
Rolls OHV Area
Bulldog Canyon OHV Area

http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/tonto/recreation/ohv/

 

[cjcj]

Like i said Gunner "what part of EXCEPT for retrieving large game don`t you understand? You have read that haven`t you? why do you keep referencing individual units? they only apply to that area, you might as well be referencing Indian reservations . Sorry lawman but you and Buzz have lost this one. It is and has always been legal to retrieve deer/elk/lopes offroad in AZ and thats a fact jack.

 

[JoseCuervo]

CJ,

WHO made it legal to retrieve game off road in AZ???

If you read thru the excerpts from the Tonto Forest, and from most of the Game units, it is NOT legal to travel off road. Where do you read it differently?

 

[Delw]

YAWN!!!!!!!!!!!