Devaluing Non-Residents

[Nick87]

Wait a minute - I thought the rules of this thread was that you had to care about all wildlife anywhere, even if you didn't have opportunity to use it. We have some wonderful spaces in MN to commune with nature - you should support those too.

I made no rules, didn't say I don't support them. The people who are complaining about being ripped off as a NR in this thread are only doing so about the places they recreate.

 

[Treeshark]

Part of what buzz and I are getting at is that if the base of advocacy/ support is expanding shouldn't we be seeing it with our local projects and regional groups as well?

I am 100% serious with this and do not mean it to be snarky- anyone on a board of a group like this should read How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

As a sales guy, some of the reasons for low membership is painfully obvious. The gatekeeping comments are spot on often times.

@Big Fin’s exchange with Matt Rinella is a great example of this: he is almost always respectful and welcoming, even when with people he obviously disagrees with. This buys a ton of political capital, whereas being combative burns it just as effectively.

 

[rjthehunter]

Wait a minute - I thought the rules of this thread was that you had to care about all wildlife anywhere, even if you didn't have opportunity to use it. We have some wonderful spaces in MN to commune with nature - you should support those too.

*rules subject to change depending on current conversation*

I made no rules, didn't say I don't support them. The people who are complaining about being ripped off as a NR in this thread are only doing so about the places they recreate.

Are they? Or was it brought up as a question?

 

[VikingsGuy]

I made no rules, didn't say I don't support them. The people who are complaining about being ripped off as a NR in this thread are only doing so about the places they recreate.

The beauty of free will is that I can disagree with both a "NR victim" narrative and a "be thankful you get anything you NR scum" narrative that together seem to animate this discussion.

 

[seeth07]

Part of what buzz and I are getting at is that if the base of advocacy/ support is expanding shouldn't we be seeing it with our local projects and regional groups as well? I've seen a down tick in participation in the last 5 years. The older folks who many times built the organization are aging out, and recruitment efforts to get new folks involved frequently feels like a waste of time.

As well though, shouldn't this effort of RRR and advocacy education have led to an increase in hunter testimony at commission meetings/ legislative hearings by now? I've largely not seen that (maybe in one case that I can think of). Is that anyone else's experience? Sure doesn't sound like it's the case in Wyoming.

The reason why is because I don't think advocacy/support is expanding - its shrinking. Its odd for western locals to understand this when they are seeing their public hunting grounds get more crowded but in reality, the amount of hunters isn't significantly changing. The amount of Wyoming elk licenses sold for example as posted on this thread show that they have been very steady around the same number for both residents and non-residents. This is due to the elk herds remaining healthy and tag allocations staying the course to keep it that way. The number of active elk hunters in Wyoming hasn't been changing.

Nationwide however, the interest in hunting in plummeting. Recruitment of new young hunters is getting tough. I'm involved in many youth hunts locally and we struggle every year to find youth to participate. Last spring we even had a spring turkey hunt go unfilled because we couldn't find a kid.

There is no doubt a lot of people are moving into the western states but I'm guessing that the amount of people moving there for the hunting is decreasing. This is evident by how the politics in places like CO are slowly turning towards a less friendly hunter environment.

 

[Mallardsx2]

The reason why is because I don't think advocacy/support is expanding - its shrinking. Its odd for western locals to understand this when they are seeing their public hunting grounds get more crowded but in reality, the amount of hunters isn't significantly changing. The amount of Wyoming elk licenses sold for example as posted on this thread show that they have been very steady around the same number for both residents and non-residents. This is due to the elk herds remaining healthy and tag allocations staying the course to keep it that way. The number of active elk hunters in Wyoming hasn't been changing.

Nationwide however, the interest in hunting in plummeting. Recruitment of new young hunters is getting tough. I'm involved in many youth hunts locally and we struggle every year to find youth to participate. Last spring we even had a spring turkey hunt go unfilled because we couldn't find a kid.

There is no doubt a lot of people are moving into the western states but I'm guessing that the amount of people moving there for the hunting is decreasing. This is evident by how the politics in places like CO are slowly turning towards a less friendly hunter environment.

Well said.

 

[Nick87]

The beauty of free will is that I can disagree with both a "NR victim" narrative and a "be thankful you get anything you NR scum" narrative that together seem to animate this discussion.

Yes it is.

 

[rjthehunter]

The reason why is because I don't think advocacy/support is expanding - its shrinking. Its odd for western locals to understand this when they are seeing their public hunting grounds get more crowded but in reality, the amount of hunters isn't significantly changing. The amount of Wyoming elk licenses sold for example as posted on this thread show that they have been very steady around the same number for both residents and non-residents. This is due to the elk herds remaining healthy and tag allocations staying the course to keep it that way. The number of active elk hunters in Wyoming hasn't been changing.

Nationwide however, the interest in hunting in plummeting. Recruitment of new young hunters is getting tough. I'm involved in many youth hunts locally and we struggle every year to find youth to participate. Last spring we even had a spring turkey hunt go unfilled because we couldn't find a kid.

There is no doubt a lot of people are moving into the western states but I'm guessing that the amount of people moving there for the hunting is decreasing. This is evident by how the politics in places like CO are slowly turning towards a less friendly hunter environment.

Could the crowding be because there is less private land opportunities? Or is information easier to come by through OnX and GoHunt so people can better E-scout and find better hunting areas that usually only residents would have known of? Probably a combination of all of these.

Here's a hot take for some.

With the interest in hunting declining, shouldn't we be trying to gain interest from the youth? I think one of the best ways to reach the youth has to be through the use of social media...

 

[seeth07]

The beauty of free will is that I can disagree with both a "NR victim" narrative and a "be thankful you get anything you NR scum" narrative that together seem to animate this discussion.

Which is sad that it has and continues to take that path but the article question that it poses is a worthwhile discussion

 

[BuzzH]

Which is sad that it has and continues to take that path but the article question that it poses is a worthwhile discussion

The article is a joke.

All that Peterson did, is what 99.99999% of what NR hunters do, bitch about allocations and the price of the tag.

Like I said, the task force meetings were on zoom, anyone could attend. There were multiple public written comment periods. Myself and other ngos supplied phone and email addresses of every task force member.

Where was Peterson when all that was taking place?

Too busy then, but wants to cry now.

I'm having trouble finding a sympathy button for those that wouldn't help themselves. A small handful of advocates can't always save the day time after time.

It's apathy and excuses, as per always and this Peterson guy and the article he wrote is a classic example.

 

[seeth07]

The article is a joke.

All that Peterson did, is what 99.99999% of what NR hunters do, bitch about allocations and the price of the tag.

Like I said, the task force meetings were on zoom, anyone could attend. There were multiple public written comment periods. Myself and other ngos supplied phone and email addresses of every task force member.

Where was Peterson when all that was taking place?

Too busy then, but wants to cry now.

I'm having trouble finding a sympathy button for those that wouldn't help themselves. A small handful of advocates can't always save the day time after time.

It's apathy and excuses, as per always and this Peterson guy and the article he wrote is a classic example.

I don't necessarily disagree with you there. I didn't like the article either, sounded very whiny with very few "good points" made.

I'm just pointing out that the question: What happens if NR License Prices keep climbing? is worthwhile hearing how people would answer it.

Buzz - would you mind taking some serious amount of time and thought and providing a brief article yourself answering that question in depth? I feel hearing your perspective answering that question is worthwhile since you were a resident that stood up and pledged to not have NR prices go up in the special draw in Wyoming. So that tells me that you don't like the potential outcomes of doing so.

 

[Nick87]

With the interest in hunting declining, shouldn't we be trying to gain interest from the youth? I think one of the best ways to reach the youth has to be through the use of social media...

Interest isn't declining, participation is. #1 reason for that is access. That is if you measure by license sold. If you were able to measure by hours spent hunting total by licensed hunters I'd wager that number is up. Less hunters doing more hunting. Social media certainly hasn't helped that situation, quite the opposite.

 

[rjthehunter]

Interest isn't declining, participation is. #1 reason for that is access. That is if you measure by license sold. If you were able to measure by hours spent hunting total by licensed hunters I'd wager that number is up. Less hunters doing more hunting. Social media certainly hasn't helped that situation, quite the opposite.

Why would a youth turkey hunt go unfilled if there was interest? I'm assuming the youth hunt seeth was part of had access and everything figured out. Just needed the youth hunters... I'd consider that a lack of interest.

WI has pretty good public land when you compare it to 30 other states.

 

[Nick87]

JFC!!

 

[seeth07]

Why would a youth turkey hunt go unfilled if there was interest? I'm assuming the youth hunt seeth was part of had access and everything figured out. Just needed the youth hunters... I'd consider that a lack of interest.

WI has pretty good public land when you compare it to 30 other states.

Our hunts for this group are conducted by volunteers that take the youth out hunting on their land or land they have access to and almost always result in 100% opportunity at a shot. We reach out on social media, local meetings, etc. looking for kids to take and last year we came up short by one. This fall, we are short 2 right now. We have 12 volunteers this year wanting to take kids out. That number has stayed pretty steady over the years. We used to have to turn kids down just 5 years ago.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Our hunts for this group are conducted by volunteers that take the youth out hunting on their land or land they have access to and almost always result in 100% opportunity at a shot. We reach out on social media, local meetings, etc. looking for kids to take and last year we came up short by one. This fall, we are short 2 right now. We have 12 volunteers this year wanting to take kids out. That number has stayed pretty steady over the years. We used to have to turn kids down just 5 years ago.

To busy making tik toks to murder a turkey.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Why would a youth turkey hunt go unfilled if there was interest?

It would go unfilled because of social media.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

Some years I apply for hunts in NM. Not this year. I can’t afford it and have to prioritize what I can and can’t make happen. Talk about a state that completely screws the NR unguided hunter.. maybe I should boycott, go on strike, or post silly shit online about how unfair it is. Nope. That’s for folks that won’t work harder for their appropriate vacation/leisure time.

Greenhorn is a miniscule dot in the big picture for NM Game & Fish. Wouldn't you think, though, that someone in that department would read his post and say, "Hmm. Why are we the first state Greenhorn drops when money is a little tight? What could we do so that Greenhorn always applies here and instead drops another state if necessary? This would improve and stabilize our funding in the future."

The people of Wyoming seem to think they are untouchable, and demand for Wyoming elk hunting will never fall. I would point out that in Randy's"Where to Hunt Elk" video a few weeks ago, he explicitly downgraded the value of Wyoming elk hunting. That doesn't signal the demise of elk in Wyoming, but his stated reason was that the impending changes (90-10, increasing prices, etc.) make it less attractive. If those changes come to pass, I doubt this would be the last downgrade.

My current version of this issue is that my wife's 7 elk points are on the line in the drawing this year. If she draws, it's no longer certain that I will resume buying points for her in July, 2025. I would like to continue, but I'll have a year and a half to decide if the value is still there. I'm a miniscule dot, too, except that under the surface I'm actually 5 dots. Economic wisdom is not always encapsulated in pithy, one-line replies to HuntTalk.

QQ

 

[Roscoe P Coal]

Yeh, but everyone knows you are a good hearted guy, and don't take you seriously.

Me too, but RJtheBunnyHumper loves to show how “bright” he is.

 

[SAJ-99]

Not wrong. I attended the RMEF meeting in Cheyenne this evening. Ten people were there, four were RMEF employees or chapter heads, one was my wife who isn’t even a member.

The email invite maybe had 20 others. Maybe.

My only counter is that most of these meetings are about fundraising. Not just RMEF, any Non profit at its core is a fundraising machine and dependent on such. Not everyone is a great sales person. That is a valuable skill, and one I don’t have. It is probably counter productive for me to try to help in this regard. Honestly, I don’t even like attending the events. I will send my check, I will send my comments on the issues, and if they have projects that need an extra set of hands, I will try to be there. Participation can take many forms.