CWD research

[Jim/Wa]

CWD research, U of Mn

I hadn’t seen the feral swine angle before. Maybe this is old news.

 

[Deleted member 16864]

CWD research, U of Mn

I hadn’t seen the feral swine angle before. Maybe this is old news.

Scary stuff.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Food for thought:
CWD - misfolded protein in cervids
Scrapie - misfolded protein in sheep
BSE - misfolded protein in cattle
CJD - misfolded protein in humans
Alzheimers - misfolded protein in humans
Parkinsons - misfolded protein in humans
ALS - misfolded protein in humans
Huntington - misfolded protein in humans

All these diseases are from INCORRECT biological folding of proteins in each SPECIES. If we cannot STOP human diseases HTH do Wildlife Agencies have the misguided opinion THEY can solve it in cervids.

 

[SAJ-99]

If we cannot STOP human diseases

Maybe we just haven’t yet found a way?

 

[Treeshark]

Maybe we just haven’t yet found a way?

Exactly. To add: it would not be unusual for a treatment to be discovered for animals before humans. You can get away with a lot more therapy experimentation with animals for obvious reasons.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

Maybe we just haven’t yet found a way?

That applies to every disease out there. The point is humans already have misfolded protein diseases and the fear mongering over CWD crossing over is BS since there is plenty of research confirming negative that question. CWD was "discovered" in 1967 which does not mean it hasn't been around much longer. There is no doubt CWD infected cervids have been consumed but yet zero indication the disease was transmitted in 50+ years.

 

[Hunting Wife]

Food for thought:
CWD - misfolded protein in cervids
Scrapie - misfolded protein in sheep
BSE - misfolded protein in cattle
CJD - misfolded protein in humans
Alzheimers - misfolded protein in humans
Parkinsons - misfolded protein in humans
ALS - misfolded protein in humans
Huntington - misfolded protein in humans

All these diseases are from INCORRECT biological folding of proteins in each SPECIES. If we cannot STOP human diseases HTH do Wildlife Agencies have the misguided opinion THEY can solve it in cervids.

Very few of the human ones you list are transmissible, while most of the animal ones are. That kind of makes them a whole different ballgame. We’ve made progress in figuring out how to reduce /stop transmission in most of those affecting domestic animals, and the few transmissible human types. But yeah, I suppose that’s all been a worthless effort though.

 

[SAJ-99]

That applies to every disease out there. The point is humans already have misfolded protein diseases and the fear mongering over CWD crossing over is BS since there is plenty of research confirming negative that question. CWD was "discovered" in 1967 which does not mean it hasn't been around much longer. There is no doubt CWD infected cervids have been consumed but yet zero indication the disease was transmitted in 50+ years.

Not sure I understand the basis for this faux outrage. Did they ban you from baiting or something?
Proof of something not happening YET doesn’t mean that something can’t happen. We have proof of it transferring to monkeys, but if you want to eat CWD positive meat, I will stand behind your right to make the decision.

 

[RealMuddyboots]

There is no faux outrage just a statement of current medical knowledge. No where did I say stop research. No where. My point is simple. About 60 years of humans eating CWD infected cervids and there is ZERO epidemiological evidence of transmittal. Is that enough proof? Science is stated so either believe in our science or don't.

This is a specific disease to cervids. The amount of research into this potential has been staggering resulting in acknowledgement of zero transferral potential. What's going to change that erases all this research? Is it because the research results doesn't meet an agenda?

The sky is falling over CWD is ridiculous.

Baiting? Dumas remark. I have never had a positive position on baiting. Not because of disease, but because of personal opinion on hunting impacts. Is that the best you got?

 

[Hunting Wife]

The simple fact is, some transmissible animal TSE’s DO transmit to humans. Why? What mechanism is it about that strain that confers that ability? Is it a character that is malleable in other TSE’s that could render them transmissible? If so, what types of exposures or conditions need to be present for that to happen? If it happens, what types of things might we do about it?

I don’t see anyone making any sky is falling statements. I see researchers still trying to understand something that has been elusive, and pulling threads trying to figure it out. That’s what science does. I’m not sure why this article generated this big of a reaction honestly.

 

[Hammsolo]

I submitted my deer for testing in WA last week. We will see. I wonder how I’ll feel if it comes back positive?

 

[mevertsen]

I don't think it's a non issue.

I also am not one to get too wound up about it.

Genes mutate all the time, in all animals, how many we have, and how many get replace on a daily basis (think skin cancer), really seems amazing to me that we all are still standing sometimes.

That being said, on regards to CWD, the fact it was discovered in 1967 tells me its been around for a lot longer than that. I spent the first 7 years of life in Carbon County, WY. I've likely consumed it? Who knows.

My doctors recommended I not consume any deer or elk meat until tested. I sent my voluntary sample this year. It took 4 weeks to come back (not detected).

How many deer have been killed, showing no clinical signs, but are positive, not tested and consumed? I imagine quite a bit.

I am also concerned, just because there hasn't been a documented case of transfer to humans, doesn't mean its not possible.

Basically, I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I'll pay attention to it, follow guidelines and cooperate with testing needs.

 

[Rainer]

Being the CWD and EHD aren't really being taken seriously. How long before it gets into the cattle herds?

 

[TOGIE]

Being the CWD and EHD aren't really being taken seriously. How long before it gets into the cattle herds?

not seriously by who?

researchers and game agencies? or the general hunting populace?

 

[kwyeewyk]

ZERO epidemiological evidence of transmittal. Is that enough proof?

No it's not. Absolute proof is not really a thing in science. Weight of evidence based on empirical data tells us that transmission to humans is currently unlikely. There's no "proof" that it is simply not possible.

I'm not an epidemiologist, or a wildlife veterinarian, just like I'm not a doctor or mechanic, even though I have some knowledge skills and abilities for each. I can make some general diagnoses for myself or my broke down car, and I can take care of many of the problems on my own.

But I will still trust an actual doctor or mechanic to have better overall understanding and will consider their advice, even though I might make a different choice than they recommend based on personal reasons.

I feel the same way about CWD. I've read zero scientific articles about CWD that have said the sky is falling. What I read is practical advice from infectious disease experts based on their expert knowledge. You might not like their recommendations about feedgrounds, baiting, etc, and we can make the management or personal decisions to not heed their advice.

When someone like Osterholm, or Tom Roffe, who I worked for on two different brucellosis research projects, says that it's probably only a matter of time before there's a transmission of CWD to humans, the only argument you have is that it hasn't happened yet so it never can. Osterholm and Roffe understands this disease on levels you and I will never comprehend, and I respect their, and dozens of other infectious disease experts' opinion on the subject.

That said, I'm not so worried that I won't eat an untested elk, but if I had one come back positive, I wouldn't feed it to my family.

I think Roffe, an active hunter, sums it up well. “Some may want to take the chance and believe it [animal to human transmission] will never happen. And good for them. But I’m one who thinks if I don’t have to take the risk, then why do it?”

 

[COEngineer]

I think someone in this thread thinks that transmission to humans is the only concern regarding CWD. That is absolutely not the case. CWD is killing elk and deer and having population-level effects. The USGS study in WY is a good example: "CWD prevalence (the proportion of elk infected with CWD) was projected to reach 40 percent by year 20 of the model in an isolated population of fed elk, and the population was projected to decline by 60 percent." https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/f...WD in an,to the other management alternatives. The numbers are very specific to that case, but the implications apply to other herds as well.

 

[Letthemgrow]

I submitted my deer for testing in WA last week. We will see. I wonder how I’ll feel if it comes back positive?

You killed the last one?
Bastard.

 

[TheTone]

I think people around me take ehd a little more seriously but that’s simply because of how immediate and visible the effect is. That said every time it pops up people seem to act like they have never heard of it before. Also good luck trying to convince them ehd and cwd are not the same thing. Had a really fun conversation this year with a lady telling me they are the same, game agencies just don’t want to admit it and scare people too much

 

[BuzzH]

I think someone in this thread thinks that transmission to humans is the only concern regarding CWD. That is absolutely not the case. CWD is killing elk and deer and having population-level effects. The USGS study in WY is a good example: "CWD prevalence (the proportion of elk infected with CWD) was projected to reach 40 percent by year 20 of the model in an isolated population of fed elk, and the population was projected to decline by 60 percent." https://pubs.usgs.gov/publication/fs20243046/full#:~:text=In contrast, CWD in an,to the other management alternatives. The numbers are very specific to that case, but the implications apply to other herds as well.

I also remember early projections by various models regarding elk in the Laramie Range that prevalence would drastically increase and that elk would be extinct over time. Yet, prevalence has held pretty steady at 3% the entire 24 years I've hunted elk there. A few years back, the GF hired a guy to kill 150 or so elk in the Laramie Range to reduce the population all 150 were tested for CWD. Exactly one elk came back positive.

IMO/E that was probably the best way to determine prevalence, it wasn't cherry picking road killed animals or animals that hunters stumbled across at noon standing in the open drooling when they shot it. It was as close to random sampling as can be achieved...and, not surprisingly, less than 1% prevalence. I would suspect the trend of 3% is likely skewed somewhat because the current sampling isn't as random as most believe. People that are submitting sampling the most are the situations where they suspect the animal is sick or wasn't behaving normally.

Point being, many of these "models" are doomsday type modeling and IMO, very damaging when those models fall way short of the reality on the ground. I also think that prevalence is over-stated as well. I won't go into many details, but I know of a cwd prevalence in a deer herd in Wyoming that stated it was 67% via sampling 3 deer. Again, I think the researchers and GF agencies need to be cautious and transparent with their modeling, prevalence rates, etc. etc. If you want people to support your CWD management, it has to be reliable and solid factually. Some of what I've seen has given me pause in regard to CWD research techniques and models.

 

[SAJ-99]

The sky is falling over CWD is ridiculous

This sounds like outrage, and the bolding and underlining text sure seems like outrage. There is no "sky is falling over CWD" going on. You resurrected a 10mo old thread and added nothing new. Ok, so your "hill" isn't baiting. Great. You aren't concerned about transmission to humans. Again, fine. How about cattle? Are you concerned about that? I guess I am asking you to get to the point. What exactly is the issue you perceive as the current "ridiculous" response to CWD? If there is something new, HT might have missed it, but this a group that is pretty on top of stuff.