Cumulative burden of taxes

[Bullshot]

Finished filing and then I made a mistake today and added up all the taxes (Federal/State/Local) we paid in 2025. It was eye opening and eye watering. It virtually eliminated the point of my wife working, and cost us twice as much in a year as it is costing to pay a year of our daughters private college tuition. We live in a very high cost state. Between the two of us (she is a teacher, I work in the environmental / land use field (traditionally not the highest paying jobs compared to all the ppl in finance, pharma, law, and medicine around here) we are "fortunate" to make enough money to not qualify for virtually any govt tax break, federal tuition assistance, or subsidy of any kind, but the joke's on us. Makes us feel we'd be better off losing one of our jobs to put us back in a more advantageous bracket. I am so discouraged, but it explains so much about why it seems we work so hard but only feel we are falling a little further behind each year. Just venting. Wow. Happy tax filing week to all.

 

[Bluffgruff]

The tax burden in our country is born by high earners, not the truly wealthy. The people who get the worst of it are just over the margin of "enough."

 

[cgasner1]

We had the conversation when kids started if it penciled out to keep my wife working for this reason. Decided since she has a career that would be hard for her to go back to and not a job to ride it out. Crazy between taxes and daycare you can be financially ahead by not working

 

[redhaze]

What makes me shed more dandruff is the property tax system in TX. We can never own our home free and clear and they tax us on their perceived value that goes up each year - we bought the house at XX dollars and pay taxes on the increased value each year without it generating any income - but the "Gov" is working on it....

 

[ccc23454]

The federal numbers are what they are and can be manipulated only so much, the state and localities are when things can drastically vary especially as compared to quality of services received for those same dollars. Having been down this road its far more complex than a thread post but it's part of why I live where I do. Everyday there are more stories about exodus of population from certain states for this reason, often unfortunately that's your only card to truly play. Good luck

 

[tillicant]

Ran a business for 45 years. Did most of my own accounting with the exception of year end as well as consultation with our cpa whenever we had questions. We were taxed, it seems like, for everything we did from income, sales, and highway use taxes. Then we had the Personal Property Tax, which never made sense to me. You buy a piece of equipment, pay taxes when purchased, then our local jurisdiction would assess tax on that same piece. (this tax was finally suspended) Due to depreciation on the equipment purchased we were able to minimize our year end liabilities, but it was only because we spent a lot on assets.
Then, after paying taxes when we purchased our equipment, taxes on money earned with that equipment, taxes (sales) on general maintenance items and parts used in the lifespan of that equipment we were assessed a Capital Gains Tax when we decided to sell the equipment. I figured that was a penalty for taking care of it. Sorry for the rant,

 

[SAJ-99]

Always odd that people can’t seem to recognize and appreciate what the taxes pay for.

Do you think kids should be able to go to school? Don’t use roads? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? You have an outhouse or public sewer system? Ever need to call the police? Garbage get picked up? Do you want violent criminals in jail? Collecting or looking forward to social security and Medicare?

The system isn’t perfect and there are holes. Always will be. But the tax burden in this country is very low. The problem is we tax individual labor, probably so everyone can complain about taxes. Even the person who owned a business is complaining about taxes and owning the business is how you best avoid taxes. I always wanted to be a corporation.

she is a teacher,

so you are collecting some of those taxes, no?

 

[406dn]

If I could change any one thing about our tax system, it would be a more equal treatment for income derived from labor, compared to income earned from capital. The wealthy investor class has very favorable treatment for their earnings in various markets.

A long time ago, when I was not long out of college, I read a variation of the Golden Rule. It went something like... he who has the gold, makes the rules.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Always odd that people can’t seem to recognize and appreciate what the taxes pay for.

Do you think kids should be able to go to school? Don’t use roads? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? You have an outhouse or public sewer system? Ever need to call the police? Garbage get picked up? Do you want violent criminals in jail? Collecting or looking forward to social security and Medicare?

The system isn’t perfect and there are holes. Always will be. But the tax burden in this country is very low. The problem is we tax individual labor, probably so everyone can complain about taxes. Even the person who owned a business is complaining about taxes and owning the business is how you best avoid taxes. I always wanted to be a corporation.


so you are collecting some of those taxes, no?

Spoken like a true Federal worker. Well done sir. lol

 

[Forkyfinder]

Do you think kids should be able to go to school? Don’t use roads? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? You have an outhouse or public sewer system? Ever need to call the police? Garbage get picked up? Do you want violent criminals in jail? Collecting or looking forward to social security and Medicare?

Ill answer these rapid fire for you from a perspective not common here.

1. Of course i do. Should i get a voucher if i dont want to send them there?
2. Sure do - you should know we pay more in taxes per gallon for those roads (highways) than an oil company makes on the same gallon.
3. Yes - and because ive got a good job and good benefits - i pay a hell of a lot of extra for people who dont - seems just like the "responsible real" world i heard about in elementary school.
4. Nope septic. The city is full of shit here anyway.
5. Sure. And i vote no on every mill levy associated with it too, plenty of nuance in funding and needs.
6. Yes. And i pay a protected monopoly for that service - who sucks. Thats cronyism sponsored by the gov.
7. Yes. Of course i want people in jail who need to be. Is there some place that isnt the case, and if there is, is it funding or policy driving that?
8. No - im skeptical i will receive it. Despite paying much higher rates and top amounts (effective rates you could say) than the spoiled boomer class enjoying it now or soon will be.

The cumalative burden of taxes in this country is very real and none of it is going to get better in my lifetime.

 

[SAJ-99]

Spoken like a true Federal worker. Well done sir. lol

I have never worked for any branch of government, but recognize they are not the “enemy”. The simple fact is everyone wants lower taxes and more services.

1) no. You make that choice. You want to homeschool or private school, that is up to you. A strong collective public school system benefits society and your home value. Bad parenting destroys it. Good luck fixing that problem. Knowing you a little, I think your kids will be fine.
2) someone has to pay for roads. Fed fuel tax hasn’t change since 1993.
3) maybe. Like I said, the system could be improved. But you are 20min from high quality healthcare, so YMMV.
4) sure, septic. They still treat it before dumping it back in the river. And cistern water is clean. People aren’t dying from typhoid in this country much anymore.
5) vote how you choose. You wouldn’t be alone in your views.
6) see #5. you voted for the government
7) a little of both.
8) agree. You willing to fix it?

I have proposed that employees just get paid after tax. The person who now thinks he gets paid $100,000 but only takes home $80k just gets paid $80k and doesn’t have to do taxes. The company pays all that out and the employee doesn’t have to worry about April 15. Of course some people think that is a horrible idea because they want people to think they are getting screwed. Seems to be working.

 

[406dn]

Ill answer these rapid fire for you from a perspective not common here.

1. Of course i do. Should i get a voucher if i dont want to send them there?

No.

Our kids have been out of school for decades, now. We nearly always vote for any mill levy for local school districts. I view it as paying it back, for the education that I received with public funding. I'm not inclined, at all, for any of my tax obligations being used to fund vouchers for people who decide to enroll their children in a private school.

 

[jpc01101]

Finished filing and then I made a mistake today and added up all the taxes (Federal/State/Local) we paid in 2025. It was eye opening and eye watering. It virtually eliminated the point of my wife working, and cost us twice as much in a year as it is costing to pay a year of our daughters private college tuition. We live in a very high cost state. Between the two of us (she is a teacher, I work in the environmental / land use field (traditionally not the highest paying jobs compared to all the ppl in finance, pharma, law, and medicine around here) we are "fortunate" to make enough money to not qualify for virtually any govt tax break, federal tuition assistance, or subsidy of any kind, but the joke's on us. Makes us feel we'd be better off losing one of our jobs to put us back in a more advantageous bracket. I am so discouraged, but it explains so much about why it seems we work so hard but only feel we are falling a little further behind each year. Just venting. Wow. Happy tax filing week to all.

Spend the $20 for a month of Claude cowork. Upload your tax return into a chat and talk through the possibilities. Look at having your wife quit her job and what the overall net impact would be after saving on taxes. You’ll be surprised how specific it can get. You don’t have to be an IT person to do this.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

Finished filing and then I made a mistake today and added up all the taxes (Federal/State/Local) we paid in 2025. It was eye opening and eye watering. It virtually eliminated the point of my wife working, and cost us twice as much in a year as it is costing to pay a year of our daughters private college tuition. We live in a very high cost state. Between the two of us (she is a teacher, I work in the environmental / land use field (traditionally not the highest paying jobs compared to all the ppl in finance, pharma, law, and medicine around here) we are "fortunate" to make enough money to not qualify for virtually any govt tax break, federal tuition assistance, or subsidy of any kind, but the joke's on us. Makes us feel we'd be better off losing one of our jobs to put us back in a more advantageous bracket. I am so discouraged, but it explains so much about why it seems we work so hard but only feel we are falling a little further behind each year. Just venting. Wow. Happy tax filing week to all.

Always a fun time of year isn't it? Completely understand and share your thoughts. I don't take your venting as not appreciating the benefit we all get from taxes but rather a frustration with the overall outcome from the current tax structure. A frustration that I share. My wife is a currently working as a teacher as well and we had the same discussion regarding if we actually come out ahead by her working. This was a hefty tax year for us, as we sold a nice chunk of investments to pay for a new home. Never add them all up at the end of the year. It will just increase the pain. Happy that I can contribute to the betterment of our society but also cringe at the % of that betterment that our household covers.

 

[Nameless Range]

I've tried to think about this in terms of what annually really beats us down. Our household income is probably pretty high on the percentile for Montana (~$160K).

Taxes go up every year, and sometimes I feel we get a good return on investment with them and sometimes I don't. I don't even know if one can think that way when it comes to the federal government because spending relative to income is so incorrigible. I'm biased, but the $160 we pay to our local Rural Fire District is a hell of a return.

Taxes are tough for me insofar as what I am gonna owe or not owe is largely a mystery to me (maybe I should hire a professional because I am financially incompetent), but being a household of W2s with what theoretically has the appropriate withholdings, it's interesting in an unfun way to get a $2K return from the feds and then owe the State just as much.

I know I'm not doing an apples to apples comparison, but when I look at the things that seem to have gone up every year as a percentage of that which tears into our income I find that personally it's Healthcare/Insurance, Groceries, and this year will likely be fuel, that are a more significant suck on our financial resources than taxes.

 

[jpc01101]

I have proposed that employees just get paid after tax. The person who now thinks he gets paid $100,000 but only takes home $80k just gets paid $80k and doesn’t have to do taxes. The company pays all that out and the employee doesn’t have to worry about April 15. Of course some people think that is a horrible idea because they want people to think they are getting screwed. Seems to be working.

I actually believe it should be the opposite. Withhold NOTHING and make people cut a check out of their accounts on a monthly/quarterly/yearly basis. I believe people should feel that hard earned money leaving. People wouldn't have to see too many fathers/mothers/grandparents dragged off to jail for not paying those taxes to drive some real change in this country. I think that would make people more apt to report government waste, waste, abuse and hold their elected officials accountable. I'm all for "common good" type stuff, even most of the things you mention but the waste is INSANE! the amount of administrative bloat in universities alone is astronomical. Now take that down to every state, county, municipality, area development district, etc. The amount of corporate welfare is also insane, that should be made publicly available in an easy to read format. The issue with most of this is that the shell game as constructed has made everyone think it's one team vs. the other when really it is both parties working together to try to extract as much resources from working families as possible without a revolt.

 

[BigHornRam]

The federal numbers are what they are and can be manipulated only so much, the state and localities are when things can drastically vary especially as compared to quality of services received for those same dollars. Having been down this road its far more complex than a thread post but it's part of why I live where I do. Everyday there are more stories about exodus of population from certain states for this reason, often unfortunately that's your only card to truly play. Good luck

That's the beauty of the system we have. State, county, city, or town, we can decide what works best for each of us. Different strokes.

 

[SAJ-99]

I actually believe it should be the opposite. Withhold NOTHING and make people cut a check out of their accounts on a monthly/quarterly/yearly basis. I believe people should feel that hard earned money leaving. People wouldn't have to see too many fathers/mothers/grandparents dragged off to jail for not paying those taxes to drive some real change in this country. I think that would make people more apt to report government waste, waste, abuse and hold their elected officials accountable. I'm all for "common good" type stuff, even most of the things you mention but the waste is INSANE! the amount of administrative bloat in universities alone is astronomical. Now take that down to every state, county, municipality, area development district, etc. The amount of corporate welfare is also insane, that should be made publicly available in an easy to read format. The issue with most of this is that the shell game as constructed has made everyone think it's one team vs. the other when really it is both parties working together to try to extract as much resources from working families as possible without a revolt.

I agree with a lot of that, other than people already "feel that heard earned money leaving". Whether rational or not is debatable. We have moved to thinking everything is "zero sum" - For someone to win, someone else needs to lose, and everyone thinks they are losing. It is laughable. We need to have conversations to improve, but no one wants to sacrifice anything. Everyone just wants to "win". Doesn't matter if it is taxes or big game draws.

Yeah, too much admin in a lot of things. Government, healthcare, corporate. AI will save us, if we just give them a few tax breaks...LOL.

 

[huntin24/7]

I feel your frustration. I have a pretty good paying job but far from wealthy. It feels like there is no getting ahead between probably a fairly average mortgage for today, a car payment, retirement contributions, and taxes along with the other typical bills. I basically quit spending money on my hobbies for the most part and just use a bunch of old gear for the most part. Kinda makes it hard to enjoy life very much at times(besides being blessed with a great family).

 

[jimh406]

It could be worse.