Straight Arrow
Well-known member
While the rest of us are enjoying a wonderfully filmed story of a highly opposed dam that never was built and a glowing account of conservation leadership ... you guys are getting weird about weirs.
Conservation Leadership - A dam that never was
- Thread starter Big Fin
- Start date
Are any of these diversion dams actual concrete weirs like what is going in at Intake, or are they constructed from boulders like the old structure at intake? It is my understanding that the majority of fish species can still get over the rock diversion dams during high water, where as they can't with the concrete weir. That is why they are building a bypass channel at Intake that they are hoping fish will use.
Western Traveler1
Well-known member
Thanks for the education and a great story Randy. A beautiful piece.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Will do!
JEL
Well-known member
It is relevant to the content of the post.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Spin away! Next we'll be opining about the best drift boat because it is "relevant" to the content of the film. You are missing the whole conservation point and shining the light on a highly deserving hunting and conservation icon.
JEL
Well-known member
Thanks again for this Big Fin. I shared this with a lot of folks who work on water policy in the state. Like I said in my first post this is a topic that is current with the MT legislative water policy committee. I have warned them on the lure of on stream storage. There is currently a push for a project on the West Gallatin.
Northwoods Labs
Well-known member
Randy: Great story, thanks for sharing. I can find some parallels between this story, and the St. Croix River which is in my backyard. The reason we have so many great rivers in this country is no accident, and if we don't watch out, they could be taken in a blink of an eye
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Do you know what's worse that COVID -19?
That none of the film tours picked this up. This is your best work yet and a truly great conservation film.
That none of the film tours picked this up. This is your best work yet and a truly great conservation film.
I wish we would have had time, and Poz had the inclination, to expand on what price he and others paid for their "obstructionism." They did not lose their jobs, as the Governor wanted. They had a Director of FWP who had some serious spine and stood up to the politicians who wanted Poz terminated. As a compromise, their division within the agency was disbanded they were all reassigned to places and positions where it was harder to do this kind of advocacy. Poz said that wasn't all bad, as now each division within the agency had some of these "spirited" employees to push the causes of wild things and wild places.
I feel lucky to have met some of these long-since retired agency guys, both state and Federal, who exemplified the "IDGAF attitude" about political pressure. They did their jobs as they saw necessary, putting the resource and the people as the highest priority. It wasn't always best for their professional advancement, but they sure have some good war stories about the political battles they fought on behalf of wildlife and the citizens for whom that wildlife is to be managed.
Poz just celebrated his 85th birthday and even with his battles with bladder cancer and a heart condition, he still thinks he is 30 years old. I served on his Board of Directors from 1995 to 2008. He and his sidekick, Gayle, have done many remarkable things for wild places and wild animals, locally, regionally, and at times, nationally. Getting to know them and the conservation stories they have lived through, gives me a potential library of content that I will never get finished in my lifetime.
This film was two years in the making, with significant cost, and nobody has any interest in underwriting. I told the crew, if we have a WHY that requires conservation leadership as one of the tentpoles to our plan, then we will do this and other stories, regardless of how much interest there is in underwriting. They jumped in with the enthusiasm needed to get this done. We leaned heavily on Mike Duncan and his friends who had done their PhD research on this river. We bothered countless people for more background and context. Without all of them, this would not have been completed.
My motivation for doing these films is not financial, rather personal. I worry that those of us who grew up during a period of increasing abundance can fall prey to the complacency that is part of the human condition; I know I can have that tendency. Hopefully by telling these kind of stories that exemplify leadership, the lesson can be taken that none of this happens by accident. No matter where you live, what wild place you cherish, odds are that some advocate stood tall to be counted when the pressure was on. He/she may have been villainized at the time. But, as is the case with Poz and the crew he led, with forty years of time to reflect, they look like geniuses.
We have more of these stories to tell, some equally as compelling, even if not as visible. Trying to tell these stories within the confines of financial realities will be the biggest challenge. Yet, so long as I own the joint, these are investments we will make.
I feel lucky to have met some of these long-since retired agency guys, both state and Federal, who exemplified the "IDGAF attitude" about political pressure. They did their jobs as they saw necessary, putting the resource and the people as the highest priority. It wasn't always best for their professional advancement, but they sure have some good war stories about the political battles they fought on behalf of wildlife and the citizens for whom that wildlife is to be managed.
Poz just celebrated his 85th birthday and even with his battles with bladder cancer and a heart condition, he still thinks he is 30 years old. I served on his Board of Directors from 1995 to 2008. He and his sidekick, Gayle, have done many remarkable things for wild places and wild animals, locally, regionally, and at times, nationally. Getting to know them and the conservation stories they have lived through, gives me a potential library of content that I will never get finished in my lifetime.
This film was two years in the making, with significant cost, and nobody has any interest in underwriting. I told the crew, if we have a WHY that requires conservation leadership as one of the tentpoles to our plan, then we will do this and other stories, regardless of how much interest there is in underwriting. They jumped in with the enthusiasm needed to get this done. We leaned heavily on Mike Duncan and his friends who had done their PhD research on this river. We bothered countless people for more background and context. Without all of them, this would not have been completed.
My motivation for doing these films is not financial, rather personal. I worry that those of us who grew up during a period of increasing abundance can fall prey to the complacency that is part of the human condition; I know I can have that tendency. Hopefully by telling these kind of stories that exemplify leadership, the lesson can be taken that none of this happens by accident. No matter where you live, what wild place you cherish, odds are that some advocate stood tall to be counted when the pressure was on. He/she may have been villainized at the time. But, as is the case with Poz and the crew he led, with forty years of time to reflect, they look like geniuses.
We have more of these stories to tell, some equally as compelling, even if not as visible. Trying to tell these stories within the confines of financial realities will be the biggest challenge. Yet, so long as I own the joint, these are investments we will make.
D
Deleted member 18333
Guest
Watched it last night. Good stuff!. I bought Jim's book "Beyond Fair Chase" as a much younger man. Had both of my sons read it before they were allowed to take hunter safety. Should be required reading for all hunters in my mind.
Wildabeest
Well-known member
Maybe you could start a GoFundMe account to finance more of these if the syndicators don’t have any interest. I’m sure lots of people on here would contribute. Maybe those of us who still have jobs intact coming out of this could donate our $1,000 checks from the gummit... just an idea.
Kiwi
Well-known member
Watched the video last night. Very interesting. Congrats to all involved.
Woodrow F Call
Active member
Watched it yesterday. I enjoyed it.
Posted it on friend face.
Posted it on friend face.
Nameless Range
Well-known member
My son and I watched this last night.
I enjoyed it, for both the message and beautiful cinematography. Seeing all the types of fish on the lower Yellowstone was cool too. Posewitz' passion is contagious, but one thing I noted was it was a tactical passion. He strategically positioned the attention to the Paradise Valley to have, "Snow on the the Absarokas and yellow on the cottonwoods."
My son who is 6, only has Chico Hot Springs as a reference when it comes to the Paradise Valley. He asked me would Chico Hot Springs be underwater? So I jumped on my computer and made this. The answer is no, but there would be a big damn bridge or you'd be driving around the lake.
Assumptions built into the map:
-Allenspur Dam was to be a 380 foot tall earthen dam.
-Referencing the only other big earthen dam I know, let's say the water level is comparable relative to the dam and so it is 50 feet below the top
-The belly of the canyon at Allenspur is 4550 ft
-So the water level would be around 4880 ft
Lake Allenspur would've washed away a lot of wonderful country.
I enjoyed it, for both the message and beautiful cinematography. Seeing all the types of fish on the lower Yellowstone was cool too. Posewitz' passion is contagious, but one thing I noted was it was a tactical passion. He strategically positioned the attention to the Paradise Valley to have, "Snow on the the Absarokas and yellow on the cottonwoods."
My son who is 6, only has Chico Hot Springs as a reference when it comes to the Paradise Valley. He asked me would Chico Hot Springs be underwater? So I jumped on my computer and made this. The answer is no, but there would be a big damn bridge or you'd be driving around the lake.
Assumptions built into the map:
-Allenspur Dam was to be a 380 foot tall earthen dam.
-Referencing the only other big earthen dam I know, let's say the water level is comparable relative to the dam and so it is 50 feet below the top
-The belly of the canyon at Allenspur is 4550 ft
-So the water level would be around 4880 ft
Lake Allenspur would've washed away a lot of wonderful country.
This doesn't make much sense... Not enough advertisement/product placement maybe??
Fish porn sells; pretty non-native trout caught by rich dudes in exotic places, then released and re-released for the camera get all the love, not ugly native catfish getting cooked over a beach fire. Or, so I have been told by those who know the ropes of these film tours.
We were warned that a longer story about people doing amazing things for wild places that extended into warm water stretches of the river, rather than adventure travel of the rich and famous, would put this film lower in the rankings. We knew that going in, so it was not a surprise, though we spent a good sum in submission fees in hopes one of the film tours wanted to hear the story. We were going to tell the story how we thought it would best be told, not as told for the end purpose of getting in a film tour.
On the brighter side, Montana PBS is looking at it. We are offering it to them for free. Since it tells a Montana story that could easily be expanded to fit the half-hour time slots, maybe they will be interested.
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