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Combination, Cape, Double, Dreilling, Vierlings

Europe

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This has come up several times in private conversations and I was ask to post something. There is at least 500 men on this forum with more knowledge than I, so hopefully they will jump in and add to the thread.

First let me say that one of the reasons these rifles are more popular in Europe than the States is because of some of the laws in different countries in Europe, restrict the number of firearms one may own. Dreilings ( especially the Blaser products ), but others as well, gives one multiple calibers, but "one" gun.

A combination can work against you when hunting in the State as some laws will not allow you to hunt game at certain times with a rifle and shotgun in the field with you, on some hunts.

combination--usually a rifle over a shotgun and my first experience with this set up was at around 7 with a Stevens 22/410, later a Valmet, and Savage. they were used for varmints and birds. I remember a 308/20 that got a lot of time in the field.

Cape--Side by side, with one shotgun and one rifle. We had one but neither of us liked them.

Double--side by side rifle. This was my favorite when hunting Africa and I liked the 450/400

Dreilling ---A single rifle over a double shotgun or double shotgun over single rifle, or a double rifle over a single shotgun. These are still used quite often in Africa and Europe and was what my husband preferred when hunting Africa. Some will put an insert in one shotgun barrel, therefore giving the hunter a shotgun barrel, and too different rifle caliber barrels. my husband like this type of set up when hunting Africa, as he could plains game hunt ( and if the caliber was enough also D.G. ), plus use the shotgun for birds and snakes, as well as being able to use slugs when hunting big game in the scrubs. I will mention that some countries in Europe do not allow inserts to be installed in shotgun barrels

He always made a big deal about the snakes, but I didn't worry about them, as I was following behind the tracker, PH, and husband , so one of them dealt with any snakes before I even saw them.

Vierlings --usually a rife barrel on top, then side by side shotgun barrels and then another rifle barrel. We had one once but never used it.

He liked the Krieghoff products, but we also had Sauer, Blaser and others along the way--There are several who make them or have.

What has your experiences been with these types of rifles/shotguns ?
 
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I've never even heard of them.I use a shotgun for Bird and Small Game and a .308 or.306 for big game.
how do you determine which barrel to shoot? Selector switch or double triggers?:cool:
 
Europe, I am so glad you have joined HuntTalk - your posts bring a wonderful unexpected variety to an otherwise fairly predictable forum! I have never fired any of these, and in general I tend towards single purpose tools over general utility tools, but your experiences are fascinating. I am taking the family to South Africa for the first time this June and I am sure some of your posts will be in my mind as I track down my Kudu.
 
My first bird killed was a yellow necked froncolin with a 22/.410 combo borrowed for the occasion. I sluiced him from about 15 yards with the 22 102277
 
I have a Merkel 140AE 470 NE with ejectors which absolutely blows my mind every time I handle it and pop 2 down the barrels.

IMO there is no finer craftsmanship than a quality double rifle with how natural they feel when shouldering and looking down the barrels at the express sights.

The more features that a bolt gun or other has that come from a double rifle the better (tang safety, open sight option etc) IMO.

I also use a 22/410 every fall for small game/birds and love it.
 
Dirtclod thank you and please let me know if you have any more questions. Remember the information I gave you were for the triggers on a specific Dreilling , that would change if the set up was two shotgun barrel's side by side on top and one rife underneath--with a rife insert in one shotgun barrel.

Viking guy--thank you so much sir -- I hope you and your family have a wonderful trip to RSA. Only a couple months away now. I bet your children are getting very excited--have fun!

Kansasdad---22/410-----that was also the gun the let me bring home my first animal. Thank you for the reply. Different times for sure--simplier times . Thank you for sharing

375H&H--a kindred spirit (-; a 22/410 AND a double rifle. Thank you for sharing and I agree, love my 450/400. Your 470 NE is a sweet DG double !

LCH and F1460--thank you!

a couple of questions that arrived via pm that I will answer here.

The 450/400 was regulated for the 400 gr wood leigh and if someone better than I was shooting it, it could reach out 200 yards. I dont believe I ever used it for anything over 100 yards and usually, much less.

If I wanted to use a different weight bullet, but basically a gun with the same ballistics, I would use a 404 Jeff which would allow me to use 350, 400 and 450 grain bullets.

No I never scoped the double, they can be, but I did not.

With all due respect to our Australian members and remember this is just one old woman' opinion. The cape buffalo hunt in Africa is NOTHING like the water buffalo hunt in Australia. The water buffalo can and do charge under certain conditions but so will a longhorn bull in Texas. The cape buffalo will "hunt" you and they do! These guys, again IMHO. are the most dangerous of the dangerous 7, with the possible exception of a wounded leopard.-----However, we loved Australia and enjoyed hunting there. The hospitality of the Australian people is 1st rate and they have a nice variety of animals to hunt.

I also want to thank those who have sent private messages, thank you
 
I've got two drillings:

1.) 1931 vintage J.P. Sauer & Sohn 12x9.3x74R sidelock with a gorgeous piece of walnut on it. It's a poor fit for me, but is a wonderful piece. I need to get the triggers worked on as it won't fire at the moment.

2.) 1930's vintage guild gun (probably Sauer made) in 16x8x57R. I've had the chambers lengthened to 2 3/4 inch and I've refinished the stock. In my bungling, I managed to cause some issues with the right barrel & rifle barrel not firing, so both are headed in to the smith for a quick check up.

And then I have three doubles; all Black Powder Express from the Victorian and Edwardian eras. All are hammer guns and all are Jones Underlever actuated.

1.) 1870's vintage Mortimer 450 3 1/4 BPE. It's a heavy gun with 30 inch barrels & a 15" LOP. I've taken whitetail with it and it's a hoot to shoot. My pet load is a 350 grain Hornady roundnose jacketed bullet with 120 grains of FFFG black powder for a muzzle velocity of about 1700 FPS.

2.) 1870's Vintage Alex Henry 450-400 2 3/8's BPE. It's a lithe little gun that shoots a 240 grain bullet at about 1600 FPS. I've used it on whitetail at close range and it's a gorgeous rifle w/Damascus barrels & highly figured walnut.

3.) 1880's vintage Rodda in 577/500 No. 2 shooting a 365 grain cast bullet at about 1700 FPS. It was originally made for shooting tigers from off the backs of elephants in India, but now it's punching paper and waiting it's turn to go into the field.
 
I herited a Stevens 22/410. It was not in good condition but one of these, in good shape would be a superb small game gun. And I believe Savage made the same basic gun in a .30-30/20 gauge which would also be quite useful. But the .22/410 over/under was a great combination and one that I would think would still sell well today, albeit with red-dot scopes, plastic, staintless, pistol-grip/thumb hole.... never mind....
 
Thanks! Dad had a good eye. :)

I'd love to increase the collection of doubles with a Merkel O/U in 8x57R or 9.3x74R as well as a British NE dangerous game gun, preferably in 450 NE or 450/400 3". Those would be a lot of fun.

Greifelt made a double rifle for American import in 45-70 with an unique clamshell action. That would be a good time waiting to happen as well.

And a 16 x7mm drilling, or a 20 gauge/8mm Bockbuchesflinte (combination gun) would also be dreamy. A vierling when I win the lottery for sure!
 
Ben, has some excellent and beautiful doubles and dreillings . Thank you so much for sharing with the Forum Ben. My husband would have been trying to wrangle an invite from you so he could admire those fine firearms.

everybody take another look at the picture kansasdad posted. boy holding his rifle and animals with several children, boys and girls alike smiling and admiring his harvest ====those were the days my friends ( wasn't there a song with those words LOL)

I was ask about --Dreillings ---Drillings --------think potato, patato LOL Dreilling is German, but most today use the word Drillings
 
Europe,

I have several posters that I always look at their posts, (NHY, Big Fin, Hank for elk, Ben Lamb, Hunting Wife, Randly 11, Mt Miller). Your are in that group. There are many others, but I work nights and am having several glasses of wine. Memory is dwindling!
 
I can smell the oiled walnut....with a faint waft of spent gunpowder and cleaning fluid in those pics Ben.

Mrs. Europe, you are gentrifying we heathens......
 
I also inherited one of those savage combo guns. I'm lucky in that it was the firearm I shot my first grouse with as a young man. Brent, mine is in 222 over 20, perfect for sniping rabbits on the far hillside, and grouse that flushed up close were in trouble. Now I've got to get it out. I think the gophers are starting to show up in the desert.
 
I have a Savage 24 22/.410 I really like. I take it with me to the woods on my wood cutting trips for potshotting grouse. I hope to catch a cottontail boom somewhere someday and take it along.
 
I, too, have an inherited Savage 24 (22/410). Okay, I stole it from my father - he wasn't using it, my grandfather would have wanted me to have it, and it's a great squirrel gun!

Europe, I was recently looking at Blaser's offerings and wondering why someone would want a heavy combination gun. (If you're on safari, why not carry a bird gun and have a porter carry your rifle?) The restriction on number of guns makes sense. It also explains the appeal of Sauer's interchangeable caliber rifles.
 
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