Colorado Pref. Points- Point of diminishing returns?
- Thread starter jt13
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Bullshot
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Something will be changing in the future. It will have to. Point creep is going to collide with the actuarial life tables. In 20 more years, the overwhelming majority of people with top points will likely be in their 60's/70's and most likely on average much higher. Wish I had the actual numbers here to work with, it would be interesting. Now, there is no problem with any individual, fit and willing hunter chasing elk as long as they want to and are able. But ALL of them? And every year there are greater numbers at each lower step on the rung. So 20 more years and majority of the top point holders will be in their 80's/90's. At some point between there, say, 30 years from now, things will finally level off - the hard way. So folks today, it STILL makes sense to get in the points game and stay in IF you want a particular hunt THAT BAD, expect that conditions in that unit and management and hunting in general will be the same in 50-60-70 years, and you believe you can hold out long enough (and actually DO hold out long enough). Not sounding so hot when I put it that way.....
Addicting
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I just looked up my points last night after reading this thread. I sure don’t want to end up in no mans land. I have one more year and I’m going to have to cash them in.
Rhino Hunter
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Good luck with that. That’s the problem with the “creep.” You think your almost there and next year it takes 1-3 points more than it did this year for the same tag. I’ve been doing it for 10 years. LOL.
Addicting
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For me it’s just a timing thing. I don’t have a set preference on a unit. Next year is probably going to be Wyoming to hunt with friends.
Slm864
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I personally think that would make it worse. There would people that would never exhaust their point total thereby always adding to the amount of people applying for the limited units and never starting from scratch again. The Colorado point system is a mess. I hope they find a way to fix it someday. I’m not sure the increase in point cost via buying a qualifying license is going to be the solution.
I imagine a system similar to AZ or WY is going to have to be the future. Some tags for max point holders and some in a random draw. The other option is to go to the ID route but people would riot in the streets if their 20+ years of points became worthless overnight.
Rhino Hunter
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I know I would.
AvidIndoorsman
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What cracks me up is how dump some people are about the whole thing... given the amount of draw odd data CO provides it's pretty easy to determine each when you will draw yet every year people are surprised they don't. Yeah Bob you do have 18 points but max point holders have 19 there are 100 of them that applied in that unit last year and they give out 10 tags a year, so yeah you probably won't draw for almost a decade... duh...it ain't rocket science to calculate point creep.
I think the inevitable solution is to convert the elk and deer tags to a weighted bonus point system like sheep/goat/moose. I have a feeling that CPAW has looked at the issue, noticed that there is a correlation between the high point holders and age, and is just waiting for the boomers to die so that when they change the system there are less people around with max points to complain.
Khunter
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Rhino Hunter
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Just 10 years? Just a rookie starting out then...
Oh no...just a slow learner. LOL. I've been applying since the early 80's...
TheGrayRider
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States should allow pointholders to devise, gift, or transfer their points to a close family relative - much like some airline programs allow the transfer in a last will or trust at death or incapacity. Expiration of accumulated points at death is unacceptable - nothing but charitable donations to the State over time. Vegas craps table would have been a better “investment “.
AvidIndoorsman
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No this is absurdly stupid.
Slm864
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That would be horrible. After generations of gifting points you would have people sitting on 100+ because the creep is so bad. I saw a draw odd article a while back that showed if you were just getting into points today at age 18 and wanted to hunt unit 201 you wouldn’t draw for like 200 years. Now granted, I expect to be in good shape at age 150 but 200 is pushing it for an elk hunt.
Slm864
Well-known member
Point Creep: What is it? Can you overcome it? and much more
Continue to build points and hope for a dream that might not ever happen... or hunt more?
Here is the article I’m referring to
Rhino Hunter
Well-known member
Point Creep: What is it? Can you overcome it? and much more
Continue to build points and hope for a dream that might not ever happen... or hunt more?www.gohunt.com
Here is the article I’m referring to
That's a GREAT article! Thanx for posting.
This is exactly why I have 27 NR Elk points in CO and still can't draw the tag I want. And in all honestly, it'll probably be another 10 years before I have a real chance to draw it.
Mallardsx2
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Its a sad state of affairs. I juts hope nobody changes the rules on me when I get to the top.... Who Am I kidding? I will never be at the top. I'll be hunting a lower point unit trying to kill animals and most likely going home empty handed. lol
AvidIndoorsman
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Just out of curiosity why not just draw a different unit/ weapon next season?That's a GREAT article! Thanx for posting.
This is exactly why I have 27 NR Elk points in CO and still can't draw the tag I want. And in all honestly, it'll probably be another 10 years before I have a real chance to draw it.
Rhino Hunter
Well-known member
I don't know...multiple reasons. Kinda had my heart set on GMU 201; stubbornness; and I've been going on many other hunts throughout the years. Since I started this chase I've hunted CO a few times, NM a couple times, WY a couple times, Alaska, Ontario and Alberta, Canada, and Iowa this December. It's not like I'm sitting on the sidelines for 30 years. I think I mentioned earlier...when I started this chase it only took 7 points for a NR to draw this tag. BUT, they're changed the drawings formula a few times since I started and each time it adds years to be able to draw. And then it's quite a step down in hunt quality if I blow 27 points on an 15-18 point tag (or at least mentally it is). I'm so close now (points wise) that it's hard to think about bailing out.
AvidIndoorsman
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Yeah as you state with 27 points you are nowhere to a max point tag... between the various seasons there are 18 max point tags, between unit 2, 201, and 10. There are 37 people with 28 points and 127 people with 27 points. So assuming that no one is holding out for any specific unit or weapon and willing to take whatever than can get (which is definitely not the case) it would take you 3 years to be in the running for any max point tag, and then 4 more years just to have 50/50 odds. So 8 years to have 50/50 odds at drawing anything in any of those units.
If it was me I would be thinking about other options, I would bet you $500 that the point system will change long before you draw that tag. That said, you could always wait till you retire, move to CO and then draw it the next season
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At the end of the day I realize that a ton of NR and R have gotten/will be hosed by the preference point system, but I think it's also important to note that I think all the powers at be and most advocating for the system new from day 1 it was a way of guaranteeing those playing the game at that time tags and shutting out everyone else forever. Implementing the pref point system, was a money grab by the state and incredibly selfish by the generation of hunters who advocated for it.
Nothing personal but I kinda enjoy watching the system burn and all the top point holders get hosed... you did it to yourselves, and it's hilarious you didn't see it backfiring.
Really the only logical way out is to switch over the pref system to the same modified lottery as the Sheep, Goat, Moose, and convert everyone's pref points to bonus points.
