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College is not a must

ELKCHSR

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College is not a must
By Walt Gardner


Fall classes are barely under way and already guidance counselors across the country are conferring with students about the courses they need for their high school diplomas. In the process, more than 90 percent will be steered toward a college-prep curriculum, according to the Alfred P. Sloan Study of Youth and Social Development. This, however, is not as laudable as it seems.

The reasons serve as a cautionary tale that the US ignores at its peril. Despite what the public is willing to acknowledge, the importance of a bachelor's degree has been wildly oversold. In 2007, for example, about 67 percent of high school graduates went directly to college, compared with just under half in 1972.

The usual argument put forth in defense of a four-year degree is that it contains a decided wage premium. Studies have consistently found that those who have a degree on average earn more than those who don't. . But all these studies were conducted before the new global economy fully emerged. Its presence calls into question long-held assumptions.

If Alan Blinder, former vice chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, is correct, the only jobs that will be secure in the next decade will those that cannot be sent abroad electronically. That means plumbers, electricians, and auto mechanics, for example, will be working steadily while many of their degreed classmates will be collecting unemployment checks.

Moreover, since wages vary within any occupation, degree holders who are still employed will not necessarily be earning top salaries. The same holds true for non-degree-holders, of course, but at least they will be in far greater demand because their skills cannot be offshored. As a result, they will be in a position to command wages at the top of their respective brackets.

The Wall Street Journal reported last month that some unionized craft workers already earn more than the average college graduate – and do so without carrying the heavy burden of student debt. The demand for this skilled labor is expected to intensify in the coming years as more workers retire and the economy revives.

All of the preceding assumes, of course, that students in high school actually receive their diplomas. In order to earn them, however, students in many states have no choice but to take a rigidly prescribed sequence of courses that too often are not in line with their needs and interests. At the top of the list is the growing requisite of Algebra 1.

California is experiencing the harm done by this requirement. At present, just more than half of the state's eighth-graders are taking Algebra 1 as part of the new policy mandating the course for all within three years.

Yet already, the requirement has singularly resulted in an increase in the dropout rate beyond the 24.2 percent in the 2006-07 school year. Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell has warned that the requirement sets every school in the state up for failure.

For schools serving large numbers of poor and minority students, the results are expected to be disproportionately felt. That's because career and technical education, which has proved instrumental in the past in boosting graduation rates for these students, will lose more funding to accommodate the Algebra 1 mandate.

Even if the funding were somehow to materialize, however, tens of thousands of students will not be allowed to enroll in vocational electives in middle school if they haven't mastered Algebra 1. This unintended consequence has become so threatening that the presidents of the California Manufacturers and Technology Association and the State Building and Construction Trades have jointly denounced the requirement.

The total damage inflicted on students by the college-is-for-everyone mentality is incalculable. Students who cannot measure up to the demands for a college curriculum are made to feel like failures.

Our competitors abroad have long understood and accepted the fact that students can have a productive and gratifying career even when they do not go on to some form of tertiary education. They grant equal respect to these students, rather than regard them as second-class.

But their realistic attitude goes against the romantic notion that unfortunately prevails in this country. What Americans ultimately need to learn is that college is merely the most convenient place to learn how to learn. It is not an absolute determinant.

• Walt Gardner taught for 28 years in the Los Angeles Unified School District and was a lecturer in the UCLA Graduate School of Education
 
Algebra 1... really? I guess it will weed out the kids that don't want to apply themselvs and save the teachers in HS the trouble.

Maybe we should make school as easy as possible? Here in Baltimore they plan on paying the students to go to school. Of course the drop out rate is around 60%, no Algebra 1 requirement for 8th grade though, I'll bet the dropout rate would be up around 70-80% if that was the case.
 
In 1994, I got my rear back to school. That is when I realized, all I could do was fall a tree and pack a mule.

I didn’t see a huge/lucrative market for 1890s job skills.
 
Russ, the fact of the matter is, like it or not, that a bachelor's degree will soon be the new GED. It is what it is.
 
The article is an attempt by a teacher to make an excuse for his district's inability to keep keep kids in school and teach them math.
 
Man - don't you guys get tired of beating the same dead horse? Is college required to earn a good living? Perhaps not. Is a college degree a good thing? Obviously. Other than the expense incurred to achieve one, what objections can anyone make about earning a degree?

Even the guy that installed AC in my house went back and got a college degree so he could do his job better for his customers and actually understand how the systems worked so he could better assist his customers in meeting their needs.

Do you think a mechanic still just fools around with wrenches and screwdrivers? It has been 20 years or more since I was able to maintain a car by myself. Even if a bachelor's degree will not be required for many of the trades, some form of technical schooling will be needed.

Many jobs will require a degree that did not historically need one.
 
I often wish I would have gotten a degree in something.

But then I hated school, only good thing about school was girls and sports. Did I mention girls.
 
Did any one read the reason for this post instead of just breezing over the title...

They had some viable arguments against, but that's their case...

Miller is exactly right...

I think some of the courses kids take nowadays are just dead end courses meant to keep some professor in employment...

This thread wasn't started to create another... WAR...

As most of the threads I start...

Only to see other points of view...
 
I think some of the courses kids take nowadays are just dead end courses meant to keep some professor in employment...

Are you talking about high school or college chsr?

As far as viable arguments...meh. The author states that globalization will continue to increase competition for a finite number of jobs. That doesn't make education less important, quite contrary. Globalization is the basis in the belief that education beyond simple Bachelor's degrees will be necessary to compete in the future. The market can only support so many plumbers ready to unplug the mechanics shitter.

It's depressing to see school officials complain about the difficulty in teaching core subjects like Algebra1. But when school districts cannot achieve the standards set by the state, they lose money. The complaints are a function of their own incompetence.
 
From the article -

the only jobs that will be secure in the next decade will those that cannot be sent abroad electronically. That means plumbers, electricians, and auto mechanics, for example, will be working steadily while many of their degreed classmates will be collecting unemployment checks.

Yes - I read it and this was part of my response -

Do you think a mechanic still just fools around with wrenches and screwdrivers? It has been 20 years or more since I was able to maintain a car by myself. Even if a bachelor's degree will not be required for many of the trades, some form of technical schooling will be needed.

Many jobs will require a degree that did not historically need one.

Most mechanic positions require some form of education or certification - it's not just grease monkeys anymore.
 
Heres my take.

I think its about goals and what you want out of life.

First of all, I totally disagree that "kids nowadays take dead end courses". Thats just plain stupid talk there. If you take a class and you dont learn something from it...you're either absent or you refuse to learn. I dont recall ever taking a single course where I didnt learn something.

That said, back to goals.

If all I wanted out of life were to be...say...a seasonal fire-fighter making marginal wages...and live in Anaconda MT...I wouldnt have went to collage.

But, I wanted more than that. I wanted a job that paid good money to do a job I didnt dread every single day. I wanted to work outdoors most of the time. I also wanted a job that had good benefits...mainly top notch retirement and plenty of vacation time. Life is too short to work it away, imo.

I also didnt want to wake up at age 50, still pounding fire-line with a pulaski, and realize that I'd never hunted white sheep, mountain goats, sitka blacktail, coues deer, etc. etc. etc. I want to experience that kind of stuff.

I also wanted to make enough to afford a comfortable home, a reliable vehicle, and also live in a place where I can buy an elk and deer tag OTC.

That left me with very few choices...and I had ZERO choice on whether or not I would have to go to college to get what I wanted. There were no options for me and no way around it. Its as simple as that.

The only reason I made it happen is because I went out and got it. I paid my own way through college and acquired NO DEBTS. I never had a single grant, loan, or scholarship and my parents never paid for a penny of my college. They did allow me to live in their home as long as I was attending college...thats the support they were gracious enough to give me and I'm thankful and appreciative of that.

I'm now in a position that I will have a very, very, very nice retirement, will have my home paid off in 7.5 years, dont have any car loans. I can hunt and apply for permits in several states a year. I have the vacation time to enjoy a hunt if I do luck out and draw...and I can still buy OTC deer and elk tags where I live. I also dont hate my job and I'm not working 24-7 trying to make my own business work.

Where I'm at would not have been possible without a college degree.

So, do I think this article is crap?

Yes, I do.
 
Damn Buzz

Thats what you used to post years ago. Except back then you included your 10 inch dick and your trophy wife

Dick got smaller...wife got bigger

Rock on Buzz
 
Although not true MULE, That was funny :D

After reading that article I was worried about my boy getting into college now.... Algebra 1 ?!?! has to be completed before going to college now? GEEESH, thats crazy. Friggin UNFAIR !!!

I can't believe they would make something like that a requirement. Next they are going to have requirement like reading at least at a 8th grade level and homework too. They might even throw in Typing and basic writing. I guess I'm just glad that my boy is in 6th grade and he has already completed Algebra 1, other wise.... I'd be more worried. ;)

Whats funny is my kids are going through the GT program (Gifted and Tallented). YAh, YAh, Big deal. That means they are top of the class, blah blah blah. What I've found out is to be in the top 10% of your class all you really need to do is your homework most of the time. What... do homework ? And read every now and then ?!?! Heck, not even all of the time, just most of the time. To have your kids in the top 5% all you need to do is spend 5-8 minutes a night with them going over homework. It doesn't take much to have your kid excell in class and "LOOK" smart, the system is set up for Retards. Average kids now adays "LOOK" smart because so many other kids are as dumb as a box of rocks (No offence to the box of rocks). I'm not taking away that my kids are doing well, but it truely doesn't take much any more. Algebra 1 to get into college ? 24.3% of kids have already dropped out because for Algebra I, 8th grade math ? That proves my point...

How many here can do a math problem like this ?

{ http://www.algebrahelp.com/worksheets/view/equationbasics.quiz }

x + 9 = 18 + -2x (What is X)

Now, in life, have I ever needed to figure this out ? No would be the answer. Do any of us need this in our job ? Well, maybe, but most probably no. The idea behind it is using simple principals to figure out a basic solution, and that is used in everday life whether your a doctor or the person that cleans up after the doctor. If I can't figure out a HOW TO DO problem after a little explination then I shouldn't be allowed in college. PERIOD !! I went to that algebra worksheet and some problems I was like WTF ? but in a couple minutes I could figure out and remind myself how to do it. At least enough to pass Algebra I. Probably, because I have core schooling and my parents gave a chit and made me learn stuff like that even though I didn't want to or, like most kids, wanted to do other things.

There was another topic about the "NO Child left behind" program. My feeling is IT SUCKS. Thats the Dumbest program ever to hit the school system. The idea behind it is to teach to the level of the slowest/dumbest kid in the class. Wait till they catch up. Alot of good that does to help out the kids that actually work. Now they are wondering why the average kid can't do basic math ?>!?!? It's because little Johnny has Poop for brains and the teacher couldn't teach the other kids because he couldn't add up to 11 because he only had 10 fingers....

I think the people that came up with that system should make it so anyone in their department can't get a raise till the Janitor gets a raise. Heck, no one should move forward till the low paying person makes more money, right ?!?!

Bullchit !! There are pleanty of different learning levels and wage earners. There are people that don't go to school that make good money and people that do that are broke because of it. Same goes to people that have a 4 year. Life doesn't need to be fair. People are different. I say leave Algebra 1 as a requierment and teach those that want to be taught, let the others do other things. YAddy YAddy BLAH BLAH...............
 
perfect timing for this email........
 

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and the final exam for college students.......
 

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Those were great.

Moosie, glad to see your kids are doing well in school. Mine didn't do so well, we had a fist fight over homework everynite, I was horrible in school. The only people in my entire family that went to college where the girls. Us guys just had to go get jobs right out of high school. I wouldn't have went to college anyhow...then. But in hindsight I should have gone. Been something.
I agree with dumping the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND program. If a child cannot keep up, put him in a program to catch him/her up. A little more effort from some of the teachers.
Not to get too far off the subject, its been alot of years since my kids went to school. I was at Staples last night to get some stuff for the store, and it was packed. All the cashiers had long lines. I was told school opened that day, and the kids were told what supplies they needed. WTF, the school doesn't supply pens, tablets, pencils, etc? With the amount of school taxes we pay, they should. Where does all that money go??
 
Gastro Gnome - Eat Better Wherever

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