Choose Your Weapon law

[Gerald Martin]

I don't like the idea of limiting anyone's hunting time. However, I do feel like hunters are one of the biggest factors of our elk numbers going dropping in region 1. Wolves, winters, and hunters all contribute, but I think we are killing to many bulls for it to be sustainable.

Overcrowding isn't really the issue for me, but I would support something that would give the elk herd in region 1 a bit of a break. Whether that is permits or choose your weapon I don't know

 

[Ben Lamb]

You want to build bigger herds that can support increased opportunity and combat predation? Repeal 87-1-201(9)(iii):

manage elk, deer, and antelope populations based on habitat estimates determined as provided in 87-1-322 and maintain elk, deer, and antelope population numbers at or below population estimates as provided in 87-1-323. In implementing an elk management plan, the department shall, as necessary to achieve harvest

 

[Horn Seeker]

+1 Ben!

"in all actuality that is what they did." Concerning ID seasons.....

No way. I have hunted Idaho a fair bit over the years and my dad hunts all season in Idaho for many years now. He really enjoys his bow, rifle and muzzleloader seasons... There's no choose your weapon there... good seasons for all. Sure, if you get the A tag maybe you get a little better archery season, but the B tag still offers some good opportunity... at least in the areas we hunt. (please forgive me if I got those seasons backwards!)

I agree with all Bart said up there. I have NEVER had an issue with crowding. I killed my bull in the middle of the so called circus that happened down in Gardiner this year. 1st thing in the morning I had a few guys crowding me, but within another hour or two I never saw hide no hair of another hunter... they weren't hunting the tough stuff..or if they were, it was thick and steep enough that we never saw eachother... (never saw a boot track from 8 AM to 2PM when I killed my bull)....

You want crowds....go where the crowds are. They aren't everywhere, I assure. Heck, in archery season we hunt the most beautiful elk country I've ever been in and we "might" see another pair of hunters every 2-3 seasons....

 

[lamdilligaf]

This wasn't the overall response I expected, but that's my surprise, I guess. I do disagree with a couple of aspects of the previous posts. First, I see no reason that a "choose your weapon" law would result in a shorter archery season. I would say the exact opposite. A "choose your weapon" law would somewhat reduce archery hunting pressure, therefore season length could remain as it is now for more years without putting noticeable pressure on the resource. Twenty years ago, there were approximately 20,000 +/- bowhunters in Mt. Now there are approximately 40,000. Those numbers come from FWP and were posted on this site earlier. At this rate of increase, how long before the impact of bowhunting becomes significant enough for FWP to restrict the archery season from present levels? Not long, I would guess. I am both a bow and rifle hunter and have been for 40 years. I have always loved the long seasons in this state and only want to see that continue. My second disagreement with previous posts is that I definitely see a reduction in the quality of the experience regarding archery elk hunting over the past 10 years in particular. I don't hunt the entire state, so your areas may be different.

 

[Big O]

Wont get any support from me or those I hunt with for the reasons stated above. I work all year so I can take off as much time as I can in the fall. I can't imagine being stuck with only getting to hunt a couple of weeks each year. The best part of MT hunting is being able to chase bugling bulls in a t-shirt in sept and cutting a track after a late Nov snow storm.

Exactly!

As an WA guy who hunts MT, having to pick your weapon would push me towards another state. Why spend a grand to hunt a few weeks in MT? WA has the pick your weapon season, and it suck's compared to MT. Do not see MT lowering the license fee to make up for the lost hunting days. I would imagine less NR's and less NR money.

 

[lamdilligaf]

Exactly!

As an WA guy who hunts MT, having to pick your weapon would push me towards another state. Why spend a grand to hunt a few weeks in MT? WA has the pick your weapon season, and it suck's compared to MT. Do not see MT lowering the license fee to make up for the lost hunting days. I would imagine less NR's and less NR money.

Perfect! You're making me feel better about my position already.

 

[Rat Fink]

I won't support a pick your weapon season. This isn't Colorado, Utah, and Washington. Limit the ATV and vehicle access and provide safe areas for animals to get away from lazy people and we have no problem with keeping the season structure as it is. In this day and age, people want easy to kill animals and don't want competition for them. That's what leads to the overcrowding issues in some areas. If people were still willing to work for their critters then there wouldn't be much of a call for pick your weapon. I enjoy bow hunting for fun, and rifle hunting to put meat in the freezer if needed. Pick your weapon is not needed biologically, it is a crutch for people that want things to be easier for themselves.

 

[shoots-straight]

What we need to work on right now, is SB 400. Adding 2000 more NR hunters to the equation. You think it's over crowded now just wait. They would be forced to hunting wilderness areas. NR come, they usually camp, and live right on the game for a week or more. Do you want another 2000 NR in our wild areas. This has made it out of committee and headed for the floor. Help kill this bill before worrying about EO seasons.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I hope my email on SB400 didn't go too late.

lamdilligaf, you should run for office.

 

[buglum]

I absolutely do NOT support choose your weapon. Archery is by far my favorite weapon, even using it in rifle season. To me a "choose your weapon" reg. would cut out half of my archery season.
Another point is, why keep limiting opportunities in Montana? This state has a reputation of unsurpassed opportunity. I'm also concerned a "choose your weapon" season would amount to turning down the wrong road of further restrictions (ie, shorter seasons, more draw tags).

In ten years I dont want to be waiting around for draw results, wondering if I can hunt elk that year.

 

[onpoint]

Mostly opinion here.... Agree w/ ratfink, lawnboy, ben, and especially drake for one part of his reply "Montana's long seasons are fantastic and the envy of many"....right on. Why mess with what is probably the best system in the country. As for as opportunity for all types of hunters, we here have it hands down. Some other states love the specialized season and opportunity type deal. MT has stayed it's own course. The greater good is what it's all about when it comes to resources like fish and wildlife....that's what worked in MT for a long time. I moved here as a young man over 26 years ago to enjoy what MT is, one of my pet peaves is people who want to make MT into someplace else. If someplace else and the way(s) they do it is so great, I'm sure those that like that someplace else would enjoy being there more than here....

 

[Gerald Martin]

]

You want to build bigger herds that can support increased opportunity and combat predation? Repeal 87-1-201(9)(iii):


Quote:
manage elk, deer, and antelope populations based on habitat estimates determined as provided in 87-1-322 and maintain elk, deer, and antelope population numbers at or below population estimates as provided in 87-1-323. In implementing an elk management plan, the department shall, as necessary to achieve harvest

Ben, I agree with you on that for most of the state. I don't think that affects us much in Region 1. As far as I know our herds are lower than the levels they are managed for.


I have to say I still have mixed opinions about the idea. I don't want to see opportunity decreased, but something does need to be done to keep predation down.

 

[Lawnboy]

Our mule deer numbers suck in Region 3. That is a fact but that just makes me either look harder (different areas of region 3) or I spread out to other regions that have better numbers. I do believe that reducing permits in some permitted areas (Bridgers) or permitting some others to help the herds recover could be the answer but making us choose our weapon to achieve animal recovery should be a last resort. Mostly due to the fact that once on that path we will soon become "one of the other states" wishing we hadn't.

With all that said I do believe that choose weapon could be a management tool but one that is used as last resort. This is similar to the unlimited archery tag issue in that we are dooms daying an issue before it has become an issue in more than a handful of districts. Let people move around discover new spots and in so doing I think you'll find most of areas are cyclical in being overcrowded. Like was mentioned earlier the roaded areas and those with easy access are always going to be busy and possibly have fewer animal numbers because of it. Just my unbiological opinion of course.

 

[shoots-straight]

Gerald, just so you know, in Region 1 elk populations are at objective in 14 of 19 HD's there. So it would help raise the bar for those areas.

Region 2 at or over objective in 17 of 30 Hd

Region 3 at or over objective in 29 of 42 Hd

Region 4 at or over objective in 35 of 37 Hd

Region 5 at or over objective in 12 of 12 Hd

Region 6 at or over objective in 17 of 17 Hd

Region 7 at or over objective in 6 of 6 Hd

This is from the 2010 counts.

http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=46892

So you can see that all of our opportunities are being lowered by the fraudulent EMP.

I would think we have more important things to deal with, other than EO hunting. We need to fix this mess first.

 

[theat]

shoots straight, those numbers say it all. It looks like the only region that is really hurting (according to the EMP) is 2 and thats only half the units. If we want higher #s of elk we need to get rid of the EMP or change it to higher objective numbers. That should lead to less cow tags and thus more elk. We could also use some longer bear seasons, more cat tags, and a wolf hunting and trapping season.

 

[onpoint]

I find it interesting that when this type of topic comes up, most (I think w/o actually researching the #'s) of the MT guys on this site usually voice an opinion that leans towards what is best for most sportsmen. I'm sure everyone of of us has a pet issue that we would like addressed, but in my limited time on here, I haven't seen many posts spouting "my good idea". Personally, I wish there were more limited entry mule deer HD's in R6 and R7. It's something I chew on but don't try to advance, don't think the majority of folks think this is biologically significant or socially desired. Thus I wander allover out of the way places to look for cool muley habitat and maybe a good buck. For me it isn't about pulling the trigger as much as seeing a lot of beautiful and new country, a good buck is a bonus. Thanks for bringing this type topic up lamdilligaf, it's very interesting to see the responses.

 

[Lawnboy]

SS, This is an honest question so take it as me looking for more education. Why is the EMP fraudulent in your opinion and how could it be made better?

 

[onpoint]

I remember sportsmen losing a battle in 2003 legislature about HB 42, sponsored by Debby Barrett (R) Dillon, a bill which I think led to the creation of current management system (EMP). Those who were around the political BS back then (Randy?, anyone else) can verify or dispute. If true, anything passed in Helena concerning sportsmen with Barrett's handprint on it is safe to call fraudulent...easy enough to research for yourself. SS can chime in and expound upon....

 

[Gerald Martin]

SS- Thanks for posting those numbers. I know that whatever the EMP numbers are managed for, its not what the land is capable of carrying.

 

[onpoint]

SS- Thanks for posting those numbers. I know that whatever the EMP numbers are managed for, its not what the land is capable of carrying.

K or carrying capacity....I think I barely remember that outdated, once useful, ecological parameter from a biology 101 class many years ago at the once proud Lewis Hall on the beautiful MSU campus grounds. It was once a great tool for wildlife mgrs, before the advent of too many things to list became more important.......