Can a good Muslim be a good American

[ELKCHSR]

Of course this applies to Canada, Australia, and for that matter the whole of Western Europe as well. This is something I've wondered about for some time now: How & why do the Muslims hate us & everyone else so much? Doesn't their God teach them to love?

Can a good Muslim be a good American?

I sent that question to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

Theologically - no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia

Religiously - no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Scripturally - no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically - no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically - no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America , the great Satan.

Domestically - no. Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Intellectually - no. Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no. Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist.
Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually - no. Because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation...perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish....it's still the truth.

The war is bigger than we know or understand.

 

[Tom]

I heard the PUE(?) foundation did a survey of American muslims and 25% thought it was ok to do suicide bombing for a jihad. The liberals probably say 75% didn't, ain't that great? No, its not great, 25% of American muslims thought suicide bombing was a good thing for a jihad, that's bad. I guess I should find the survey, anybody know it?

 

[Curly]

25% of American muslims thought suicide bombing was a good thing for a jihad, that's bad. I guess I should find the survey, anybody know it?

Jose and Buzz didn't see anything wrong with the Muslims thinking it was ok to do suicide bombings. Read about it in current events:

http://www.hunttalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31006

 

[danr55]

You need to read "Sword of the Prophet" by Serge Trifkovic before you start a discussion about Muslims and America. It makes some interesting revelations about the religion of Islam.

 

[Moosie]

I thought an America has the freedom of belief ? Tell me who makes a good American ? People that are Anti war .... Good Americans or no ? Gay rights activist..... Good Americans or no ? Anti Hunters..... Good Americans or no ? Budhists..... Good Americans or no ?

MAybe to be a Good americans we ned to be blond hair and Blue eyed ?

 

[Delw]

MAybe to be a Good americans we ned to be blond hair and Blue eyed ?

with fake boobies and a pink thong hump

 

[danr55]

To my mind, a good American is someone who believes in the Constitution of the United States and is willing to stand up and fight for it, if necessary. Someone who is believes that above all other considerations, people have the right to choose what is and is not right for themselves and thier families, without any undo force or consideration from outside sources as long as those choices don't cause harm or damage to anyone else.

When one group of people consider it necessary to interject thier beliefs on my life or the lives of those I love, then they are not good Americans. When any religion feels compelled to dictate how I live my life, when, where and how I pray or don't pray, how I choose my friends and/or companions, and they make that dictate without consideration for what I choose to believe, then they are not good Americans. It doesn't matter if they have blue eyes or a pink thong or wear a chador or nikes.

 

[Curly]

I thought an America has the freedom of belief ? Tell me who makes a good American ?

Everyone is free to believe what they want, but when their beliefs are so wacked then they shouldn't be too surprised when other people don't want them around.

A good American is someone who has good moral values, proud of the country, willing to fight for the values of the country, and wants to be a part of this country. Suicide bombing is not a part of this country's values.

 

[MNHunter]

When one group of people consider it necessary to interject thier beliefs on my life or the lives of those I love, then they are not good Americans. When any religion feels compelled to dictate how I live my life, when, where and how I pray or don't pray, how I choose my friends and/or companions, and they make that dictate without consideration for what I choose to believe, then they are not good Americans. It doesn't matter if they have blue eyes or a pink thong.

I know plenty of Christians that fit this bill too.

 

[Tom]

Freedom of belief, accept when your belief is to hurt others exercising their freedoms. Like a suicide bomber, that's like murder of innocent people, because the bomber is killing others.

Danr pointed out the US Constitution, that's it, that's the key to being a good American, following that. I think Islam requires their law to be followed, not the Constitution, that permits freedom of religion.

Do any muslims believe in freedom of religion?

 

[noharleyyet]

Wouldn't this question be more salient if posed as, "Can a radical muslim make a good American?"

..good point MNHunter.

 

[Tom]

http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf is the actual survey.

Its only 8% of American born muslims, I heard wrong. I guess that's why they're called extremists.

from the actual report:
"Very few Muslim Americans – just
1% – say that suicide bombings against
civilian targets are often justified to defend
Islam; an additional 7% say suicide bombings
are sometimes justified in these
circumstances. In Western Europe, higher
percentages of Muslims in Great Britain,
France and Spain said that suicide bombings
in the defense of Islam are often or sometimes
justified."

Muslim American Views on
Islamic Extremism
Foreign Native
Concern about U.S. ---Born--- ---Born---
rise of Islamic Muslims All Arabs All Blacks
extremism in U.S. % % % % %
Very/Somewhat 61 60 72 66 67
Not too/Not at all 34 35 24 32 32
Neither/DK 5 5 4 2 1
100 100 100 100 100

Suicide bombing
can be justified…
Often/Sometimes 8 9 12 8 6
Rarely/Never 83 82 78 87 85
DK/Refused 9 9 10 5 9
100 100 100 100 100

View of al Qaeda
Very unfavorable 58 63 60 51 36
Somewhat unfav. 10 7 8 16 25
Favorable 5 3 4 7 9
DK/Refused 27 27 28 26 30
100 100 100 100 100

Only 5% of American born muslims have a favorable view of Al Queda. Al Queda wants to destroy America, they declared war on us a long time ago.

1 out of every 20 American born muslims is favorable for the group that wants that, according to this survey. I guess they'd probably harbor terrrorists or be them or something like that, eh?

How many would admit that in a survey? All who believed it or less. I think less. Another 27% said they don't know or refused to answer that question.

61% of American born muslims are very/somewhat concerned about rising terrorism in the US. That's a hint of some coming problems maybe, eh?

 

[danr55]

MNHunter, The phrasing of my previous statement was meant to include all religions without consideration for origin or sect. Anyone who feels it necessary to compell another to live to dictates other than those that they choose, doesn't belong in this country. That includes a couple of the current candidates for President....but that's another discussion.

 

[Curly]

I know plenty of Christians that fit this bill too.

Yes, they do fit the bill........because this country was founded on Christian beliefs.

A person following the Jewish faith or Mormonism will also be a good American.

A radical muslim cannot be a good American because in his mind he thinks its ok to kill people because they don't believe what he does. In this country we don't believe it's ok to kill people just because they have different beliefs.........(not just because the law says so, either).

 

[Tom]

Right on Curly, a radical muslim like that, that is a problem! 5% of American born muslims say they favorably view Al Queda, 8% support suicide bombing of civilians for Islam under some circumstances. Sounds like there are radical muslims born in the US even, right?

Many more didn't answer those questions for one reason or another also.

 

[MNHunter]

Yes, they do fit the bill........because this country was founded on Christian beliefs.

A person following the Jewish faith or Mormonism will also be a good American.

A radical muslim cannot be a good American because in his mind he thinks its ok to kill people because they don't believe what he does. In this country we don't believe it's ok to kill people just because they have different beliefs.........(not just because the law says so, either).

So it is ok for a Christian to impose his/her beliefs on others and still be a "good" American because this country was founded on some Christian beliefs? Gotcha. Clear as mud.

As for your last statement, you included the term radical next to Muslim and said they couldn't be a good American. I would agree but I think it is the radical element that is salient. In the same vein, a radical Christian wouldn't be a "good" American either. You know, the kind that bomb abortion clinic and kill those inside because of their beliefs.

 

[JoseCuervo]

A good American is someone who has good moral values, proud of the country, willing to fight for the values of the country, and wants to be a part of this country. Suicide bombing is not a part of this country's values.

Now we have Curly wanting people's moral values to be approved by him and his ilk.....

Nice..... So much for the Constitution....

 

[JoseCuervo]

Danr pointed out the US Constitution, that's it, that's the key to being a good American, following that. I think Islam requires their law to be followed, not the Constitution, that permits freedom of religion.

Tom,

You think Christians should follow the Constitution and not God's Law?

 

[JoseCuervo]

.

A person following the Jewish faith or Mormonism will also be a good American.

Always a frightening point in a Country's history when you have Looneys like Curly deciding which religions are acceptable.

Unbelievable.

 

[Curly]

So it is ok for a Christian to impose his/her beliefs on others and still be a "good" American because this country was founded on some Christian beliefs?

Good point. I don't like anyone's beliefs being "imposed" on someone else. I'm just saying that Christian beliefs are more closely aligned with the laws of this country because the founders of this country were christians. What part of the Christian beliefs would make a christian a bad American.

As for your last statement, you included the term radical next to Muslim and said they couldn't be a good American. I would agree but I think it is the radical element that is salient. In the same vein, a radical Christian wouldn't be a "good" American either. You know, the kind that bomb abortion clinic and kill those inside because of their beliefs.

Another good point. The radical Christian that bombs abortion clinics stops following the Christian rules when they bomb the clinics. Doesn't Islam say that it is ok to kill someone who does not convert to Islam? That would make all Muslims unable to be a good American.

If Muslims want to coexist in this country, they need to modify their beliefs and let it be known that suicide bombing is unacceptable.

It would be interesting to see a study of Christians to see what percentage think abortion clinic bombing is ok. I'd bet that the percentages would be way lower that the Muslim study of suicide bombing.