California's climate change emergency

[BigHornRam]

We have the Ashland Forest Resiliency Project here, and the Clark's Fork habitat improvement project to the north of the Rogue Valley. Both projects have done great thinning to improve the wildland- urban interface and clean up the respective watersheds.

Unfortunately, every time they try to burn it causes an uproar over smoke. I think it's just a vocal minority, but the squeeky wheel and all... You'd think they'd be willing to endure a little winter smoke if it improved the oppressive summer smoke.

99% of the people that squawk about controlled burn smoke in Western Montana are recent California transplants.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hopefully we can more towards more proactive fire management instead of always being reactive.

For instance, I know this is going to go over like a lead balloon, but I think we need to discuss creating a fire management loop hole in wilderness areas.

Summit county CO is a great example, just no two ways about it, the forest was decimated by pine beetles, the boundary is absurdly close to houses, essentially it can't be thinned effectively and will never be allowed to burn. Heavy equipment should be allowed to create a buffer zone and then USFS needs to be aggressive with controlled burns.

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It's been a while since I spent a bunch of time in the WIlderness Organic Act, but my understanding is that the regional forester can make exemptions when life & property are at risk.

The bigger question is why we continue to allow such reckless development of the WUI.

 

[BigHornRam]

That specific wilderness area was created after a lot of the house were built... dumb spot to designate a wilderness area. Though I think the real issue is that fires and our understanding of fire management has evolved a lot in the last 50 years.

Also not burning well... might that be a plus rather than a minus? Just asking questions... my family owned a hotel in CO and we would do a ton of fire mitigation during the fall and burn everything in Dec-Feb depending on the snow and our permit from the town.

No burning in Missoula county from December through February. Have to call in daily the rest of the year to see if it is open that day specifically for burning, and is dependent weather conditions and air quality. I may or may not have "warming fires" when working in the woods in the winter.

 

[Ben Lamb]

99% of the people that squawk about controlled burn smoke in Western Montana are recent California transplants.

And they're running for the legislature.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

No burning in Missoula county from December through February. Have to call in daily the rest of the year to see if it is open that day specifically for burning, and is dependent weather conditions and air quality. I may or may not have "warming fires" when working in the woods in the winter.

Interesting... Grand County you had to call in, weather and air quality were obviously factors but the season was generally late Nov-March as long as there was 6 inches or more of accumulated snow on the ground.

 

[TOGIE]

Interesting... Grand County you had to call in, weather and air quality were obviously factors but the season was generally late Nov-March as long as there was 6 inches or more of accumulated snow on the ground.

yep, sounds like the same criteria at the camp i used to work at when we would burn slash piles in the winter, same time frame, same criteria. that was larimer county

giant bonfires in the snow... man that was fun

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

yep, sounds like the same criteria at the camp i used to work at when we would burn slash piles in the winter, same time frame, same criteria. that was larimer county

giant bonfires in the snow... man that was fun

We had this massive drained pond that was the part of the historic water infrastructure, essentially a 1.5 acre dirt hole that we would make our giant bonfires in... lol most fun job I’ve had... and worst paying.

 

[TOGIE]

We had this massive drained pond that was the part of the historic water infrastructure, essentially a 1.5 acre dirt hole that we would make our giant bonfires in... lol most fun job I’ve had... and worst paying.

it didn't take me long to learn that when working at a camp you're largely, at least 50%, paid in fun times and memories. the other 50% is just enough beans to keep it legal

 

[antlerradar]

Forestry question, why aren't there/or aren't there more controlled burns during the winter?

Seems like if you knew there was going to be a big storm coming in a couple of days with 10+ inches of snow, that would be a great time to do some huge burns in very high risk areas? No?

Like bighornram said. It is hard to get any real fuel reduction with low temps and high humidity. Really not gaining long term reduction if all you burn is grass.
The problem with starting a fire before a big storm is the "warm before the storm" Often big storms are preceded by warm temps and high winds.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

Like bighornram said. It is hard to get any real fuel reduction with low temps and high humidity. Really not gaining long term reduction if all you burn is grass.
The problem with starting a fire before a big storm is the "warm before the storm" Often big storms are preceded by warm temps and high winds.

Not trying to be argumentative here, legitmate question.

Agree warm before the storm.

So giant forest of lodgepole dead fall, won't burn or will burn to much? It burns great in my slash pile great in Feb and there is little danger of it getting out of hand, so why not do controlled burns?

 

[cedahm]

That specific wilderness area was created after a lot of the house were built... dumb spot to designate a wilderness area.

My wife's old house is a couple of blocks from that screenshot. Also notable is that both designation and a lot of the homes were built when the predominately lodgepole forest was healthy.

Dumb place to build house. Hopefully the property owners take proactive fuel reduction steps around their homes and use fire resistant building products.

A couple miles across town by the freeway there is a large subdivision that did exactly that. When the Buffalo Fire started there 2 years ago, it stopped right at the firebreak (go figure). That changed a lot of public opinion on 'ugly' firebreaks in Summit Cty. But without an exception like @wllm1313 mentioned - not possible to do so in the neighborhood that effectively borders the WA. I imagine it is not the only such development in the west.

 

[AvidIndoorsman]

My wife's old house is a couple of blocks from that screenshot. Also notable is that both designation and a lot of the homes were built when the predominately lodgepole forest was healthy.


A couple miles across town by the freeway there is a large subdivision that did exactly that. When the Buffalo Fire started there 2 years ago, it stopped right at the firebreak (go figure). That changed a lot of public opinion on 'ugly' firebreaks in Summit Cty. But without an exception like @wllm1313 mentioned - not possible to do so in the neighborhood that effectively borders the WA. I imagine it is not the only such development in the west.

Yeah we lived up there for a year... but the situation is definitely not unique and I think highlights some of the stickyness of the problem that gets glossed over with the current rhetoric for both sides.

I'm sure each CA community has it's own relationship with fire, and fire mitigation, and a whole pile of problems I don't understand.

 

[Zach]

Isn't this an off-season topic?

 

[BigHornRam]

Not trying to be argumentative here, legitmate question.

Agree warm before the storm.

So giant forest of lodgepole dead fall, won't burn or will burn to much? It burns great in my slash pile great in Feb and there is little danger of it getting out of hand, so why not do controlled burns?

How about getting Feinstein's bill passed and start making the dead fall into firewood, wood pellets, or wood generated electricity?

 

[cedahm]

Isn't this an off-season topic?

Most of the Big Game seasons end today for a couple weeks in CO...so...

How about getting Feinstein's bill passed and start making the dead fall into firewood, wood pellets, or wood generated electricity?

Like this one: https://businessden.com/2018/08/17/...manufacturer-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy/

I know this thread is CA-focused, and I'm no forestry expert by any stretch of the imagination, but we haven't figured anything out that's stuck in CO. Except Fire breaks - those work

 

[BigHornRam]

Looks too me that there is opportunity for good business people to capitalize on California's deadwood problem once Feinstein's bill gets passed. Make it into electricity.

California Electricity Prices: No. 7 in U.S. - CalChamber Alert

The annual U.S. electricity price map released by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Global Energy Institute shows California average electricity retail prices are among the highest in the nation.

calchamberalert.com

 

[Zach]

Most of the Big Game seasons end today for a couple weeks in CO...so...

Deer season starts tomorrow, Pronghorn Saturday... so....

 

[Ben Lamb]

How about getting Feinstein's bill passed and start making the dead fall into firewood, wood pellets, or wood generated electricity?

Feinstein's bill is running into a buzzsaw in the House. Doubt it's going anywhere, even as desperate as Daines is for it to do so.

 

[BigHornRam]

Feinstein's bill is running into a buzzsaw in the House. Doubt it's going anywhere, even as desperate as Daines is for it to do so.

Nancy fiddles while California burns. Fitting legacy to end her career on.

 

[antlerradar]

Not trying to be argumentative here, legitmate question.

Agree warm before the storm.

So giant forest of lodgepole dead fall, won't burn or will burn to much? It burns great in my slash pile great in Feb and there is little danger of it getting out of hand, so why not do controlled burns?

Lodge pole is a higher elevation tree. The chances of there not being some snow in Feb is close to zero. Even here in low elevation/dry SE Montana any moisture that falls will linger on the north facing slopes all winter. Just not enough heat and sun to dry stuff out. That being said the Custer has done some late winter/early spring controlled burns. The problem is that good conditions for a burn don't happen very often and they are only effective on south facing slopes. Totally a waste on the North facing slopes where most of the fire fuel is. Not saying you couldn't winter burn on north facing slopes if you had the right conditions, but those conditions might only happen once in 100 years.