I've got a theoretical situation that I have been debating and I want to see what you all have to say. If you could buy property in a western state, which state would you pick. Specifically I am curious about which states could get you landowner tags on a yearly basis predictably. I was fantasizing about having a place to go hunt archery elk and rifle mule deer and possibly pronghorn. I'm sure it would take me weeks to understand each states regulations.
Buying Property
- Thread starter OH->CO
- Start date
LCH
Well-known member
Have you hunted much out west? I only ask because I used to have that Midwestern mindset also, that you needed to buy land to have gauranteed access to quality hunting.
Myself, I'd pick a state with OTC resident tags and an area with good access to public ground with quality hunting. Unless you're buying a very large piece of land, I think it'd be tough to find a place with quality hunting for all 3 of the species listed.
Myself, I'd pick a state with OTC resident tags and an area with good access to public ground with quality hunting. Unless you're buying a very large piece of land, I think it'd be tough to find a place with quality hunting for all 3 of the species listed.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
The following is excerpted from the Montana hunting regulations and should clarify for that state:
Landowner Preference • Montana landowners (resident and nonresident) may qualify for preference in the license/permit drawings for deer, elk, and antelope. • In order to claim landowner preference for deer B, deer permit, and/or antelope drawings, a landowner must own at least 160 acres of land within the hunting district applied for. If the license/permit is only valid for a portion of the hunting district, the landowner must own land within that portion and the land must be used primarily for agricultural purposes. • In order to claim landowner preference for the Elk B License and/or elk permit drawings, a landowner must own or be contracting to purchase at least 640 contiguous acres of land within a district regularly used by elk for one or more seasonal activities. If the license/permit is only valid for a portion of the hunting district, a landowner must own land within that portion to claim preference. • A landowner may designate his/her preference to a member of his/her immediate family (blood or marriage related) or a ranch manager (paid employee who has state, federal, or FICA taxes withheld from pay). Only one person may use designated preference in a partnership or corporation. • Nonresidents owning land in Montana should contact FWP Headquarters in Helena at 406-444- 2950 for details on how to apply for landowner preference.
Landowner Preference • Montana landowners (resident and nonresident) may qualify for preference in the license/permit drawings for deer, elk, and antelope. • In order to claim landowner preference for deer B, deer permit, and/or antelope drawings, a landowner must own at least 160 acres of land within the hunting district applied for. If the license/permit is only valid for a portion of the hunting district, the landowner must own land within that portion and the land must be used primarily for agricultural purposes. • In order to claim landowner preference for the Elk B License and/or elk permit drawings, a landowner must own or be contracting to purchase at least 640 contiguous acres of land within a district regularly used by elk for one or more seasonal activities. If the license/permit is only valid for a portion of the hunting district, a landowner must own land within that portion to claim preference. • A landowner may designate his/her preference to a member of his/her immediate family (blood or marriage related) or a ranch manager (paid employee who has state, federal, or FICA taxes withheld from pay). Only one person may use designated preference in a partnership or corporation. • Nonresidents owning land in Montana should contact FWP Headquarters in Helena at 406-444- 2950 for details on how to apply for landowner preference.
As stated of above, buy land in a state with OTC opportunity. Herds, hunting pressure, fires, all change. You need to own a good size chunk of land, and depending on what general area - you might only get cow elk tags, and bull tags would be raffled between land owners based off of how much land each one owns. There's a chance you would in theory, never get it, or you could get it every year. Where there are larger herds and they aren't necessarily managed for trophy unit, you might have nothing to worry about.
If I was to buy property, I would look for a place that is more centrally located for the areas and different regions you want to hunt. Look for quick access, or a property where your backyard is public access. Tons of things to consider though on this. I would be more concerned about my neighbors (being surrounded by public land) versus getting a land owner tag. You could also save a lot of money just buying land owner tags, and hunting the same ranch every year too.
Unless you can buy a mountain, in that case, you should get two mountains.
If I was to buy property, I would look for a place that is more centrally located for the areas and different regions you want to hunt. Look for quick access, or a property where your backyard is public access. Tons of things to consider though on this. I would be more concerned about my neighbors (being surrounded by public land) versus getting a land owner tag. You could also save a lot of money just buying land owner tags, and hunting the same ranch every year too.
Unless you can buy a mountain, in that case, you should get two mountains.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
As said above unless you can buy a mountain it's not really that helpful. I have in-laws CO that owns a small ranch (400+/- acres), so here is my experience, 1. You still have to draw landowner tags, and there is a point system they can usually draw 1 private only deer tag a year and sometimes... maybe ever 2-3 years an open tag. This is for 2nd season, if they apply for 3rd it takes 2 years for a private land only tag and 4th season would be 5+. In the regular draw a 2nd season tag in this unit can be drawn with 0-1 points. With the private only tag it's super hit or miss, because it depends on weather and hunting pressure to push deer down off public land.
Basically the landowner tag just guarantees that between that and the regular draw most of the 3 of us that hunt will get a tag each year for 2nd season to hunt the ranch. The ranch is in an OTC unit for elk so no tags there and typically the elk don't come down to private until the weather really turns so it's mostly just cows. Generally speaking the hunting is so good in that country and it's only 30 min from a wilderness areas that we never hunt it for elk and my brother and law and I take turns every other year hunting deer on the property with my father-n-law who doesn't have the knees anymore to hike into the mountains.
For what the property would cost to buy, you could easily go guided in some amazing unit for the rest of your life. Don't get me wrong I love being able to hunt it and get the tags, but unless you have a ton of money and can buy a huge place in a limited draw unit the landowner tags aren't that big of a boone. What that property does provide is a population of deer to hunt during second season as at that elevation there are rarely any on adjacent public land as they don't typically come down out of the mountains till end of 3rd/4th season (last year late December) Buying a small property in a trophy unit would have 0 benefit, where it would help would be a unit on the front range where there isn't public land as it would give you a place to hunt, probably similar to buying a property in OH. If you bought a property 160 acre qualifying property in unit 10 or unit 61 in CO I'm not sure how much it would really help you in the draw... maybe shave a couple of years of the drawing... maybe?
Qualifications:
For a landowner as shown by a recorded deed to qualify for the Landowner Preference Program in Colorado, the land must meet all of the following qualifications:
Be a minimum of 160 contiguous acres of private agricultural land; AND;
Be inhabited by the species being applied for in significant numbers throughout the year or in substantial numbers for shorter times; AND;
Provide for the species being applied for: wintering habitat, transitional habitat, calving areas, solitude areas, migration corridors, or provide a forage source; AND;
Have a history of game damage or a huntable population of the species being applied for; AND;
Be within a Game Management Unit (GMU) for which all rifle licenses are totally limited for the species (deer, elk, or pronghorn) being applied for; AND;
The landowner must agree that:
The landowner will submit in writing any changes to information provided on the registration to Colorado Parks and Wildlife within thirty (30) days; AND;
Vouchers shall only be transferred by the landowner or the landowner’s designated land manager, if any, directly to an individual to be used by that individual for the purchase of a license; AND;
A voucher that has been transferred by any person who is not the landowner or designated land manager is void. A voucher that is brokered for another person is void. A hunting license obtained for use with a void voucher is also void. No person shall broker a voucher on behalf of any landowner or person, or use or possess any brokered voucher; AND;
The transfer of a voucher by a landowner or designated land manager must include permission to access and hunt all of the land that is registered for which the voucher was awarded, and for the entire season for which the voucher was awarded; without discrimination among hunters entering the land or contain restrictions other than manner of access (i.e. foot, horseback, vehicular) reasonably necessary to prevent damage to land; AND;
By participating in the Landowner Preference Program, the landowner shall be required to file any required reports using the forms provided by CPW; and those reports must be complete and correct, and submitted to CPW within thirty (30) days after the close of the season.
Basically the landowner tag just guarantees that between that and the regular draw most of the 3 of us that hunt will get a tag each year for 2nd season to hunt the ranch. The ranch is in an OTC unit for elk so no tags there and typically the elk don't come down to private until the weather really turns so it's mostly just cows. Generally speaking the hunting is so good in that country and it's only 30 min from a wilderness areas that we never hunt it for elk and my brother and law and I take turns every other year hunting deer on the property with my father-n-law who doesn't have the knees anymore to hike into the mountains.
For what the property would cost to buy, you could easily go guided in some amazing unit for the rest of your life. Don't get me wrong I love being able to hunt it and get the tags, but unless you have a ton of money and can buy a huge place in a limited draw unit the landowner tags aren't that big of a boone. What that property does provide is a population of deer to hunt during second season as at that elevation there are rarely any on adjacent public land as they don't typically come down out of the mountains till end of 3rd/4th season (last year late December) Buying a small property in a trophy unit would have 0 benefit, where it would help would be a unit on the front range where there isn't public land as it would give you a place to hunt, probably similar to buying a property in OH. If you bought a property 160 acre qualifying property in unit 10 or unit 61 in CO I'm not sure how much it would really help you in the draw... maybe shave a couple of years of the drawing... maybe?
Qualifications:
For a landowner as shown by a recorded deed to qualify for the Landowner Preference Program in Colorado, the land must meet all of the following qualifications:
Be a minimum of 160 contiguous acres of private agricultural land; AND;
Be inhabited by the species being applied for in significant numbers throughout the year or in substantial numbers for shorter times; AND;
Provide for the species being applied for: wintering habitat, transitional habitat, calving areas, solitude areas, migration corridors, or provide a forage source; AND;
Have a history of game damage or a huntable population of the species being applied for; AND;
Be within a Game Management Unit (GMU) for which all rifle licenses are totally limited for the species (deer, elk, or pronghorn) being applied for; AND;
The landowner must agree that:
The landowner will submit in writing any changes to information provided on the registration to Colorado Parks and Wildlife within thirty (30) days; AND;
Vouchers shall only be transferred by the landowner or the landowner’s designated land manager, if any, directly to an individual to be used by that individual for the purchase of a license; AND;
A voucher that has been transferred by any person who is not the landowner or designated land manager is void. A voucher that is brokered for another person is void. A hunting license obtained for use with a void voucher is also void. No person shall broker a voucher on behalf of any landowner or person, or use or possess any brokered voucher; AND;
The transfer of a voucher by a landowner or designated land manager must include permission to access and hunt all of the land that is registered for which the voucher was awarded, and for the entire season for which the voucher was awarded; without discrimination among hunters entering the land or contain restrictions other than manner of access (i.e. foot, horseback, vehicular) reasonably necessary to prevent damage to land; AND;
By participating in the Landowner Preference Program, the landowner shall be required to file any required reports using the forms provided by CPW; and those reports must be complete and correct, and submitted to CPW within thirty (30) days after the close of the season.
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npaden
Well-known member
The tricky part to buying a piece of property with part of the reason being whether or not it has landowner tags is that these could go up in a puff of smoke pretty easily.
New Mexico seems to have one of the most generous landowner tag systems with several areas where the landowner gets a tag that is good unit wide including public land in some of the best elk country around. Some of those tags are currently being sold for $7,000+ by landowners that don't use them. New Mexico also currently allows unlimited deer licenses that are for deeded property for landowners. You can buy those over the counter. It seems like every couple years there is a push by different organizations to stop all or part of both systems. They did just get some of the antelope rules changed. All it would take would be a stroke of a pen and those tags would be gone. I'm sure a lot of money would change hands in the legislature trying to prevent that from happening, but it is always a possibility. New Mexico purchased several Wildlife Management Areas with nonresident license fees and then changed the law so that nonresident can't hunt the Wildlife Management Areas that their license fees paid for.
I know Colorado, Utah, and Nevada have some type of landowner tags. Wyoming has some but is very strict about they have to be used by the landowner. Not sure about Idaho. Montana is the strictest with absolutely no landowner tags at all.
I wouldn't buy a piece of property based on whether it currently gets a private landowner tag or not.
New Mexico seems to have one of the most generous landowner tag systems with several areas where the landowner gets a tag that is good unit wide including public land in some of the best elk country around. Some of those tags are currently being sold for $7,000+ by landowners that don't use them. New Mexico also currently allows unlimited deer licenses that are for deeded property for landowners. You can buy those over the counter. It seems like every couple years there is a push by different organizations to stop all or part of both systems. They did just get some of the antelope rules changed. All it would take would be a stroke of a pen and those tags would be gone. I'm sure a lot of money would change hands in the legislature trying to prevent that from happening, but it is always a possibility. New Mexico purchased several Wildlife Management Areas with nonresident license fees and then changed the law so that nonresident can't hunt the Wildlife Management Areas that their license fees paid for.
I know Colorado, Utah, and Nevada have some type of landowner tags. Wyoming has some but is very strict about they have to be used by the landowner. Not sure about Idaho. Montana is the strictest with absolutely no landowner tags at all.
I wouldn't buy a piece of property based on whether it currently gets a private landowner tag or not.
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
Nebraska has a landowner tag program that may fit with what you are wanting to do. Just a matter of finding the pieces of property that would qualify for elk/antelope landowner tags. Depending on the area land is fairly affordable in the Western part of the state. Some guys buy land for this purpose and then lease the farming/grazing rights off to a local to generate some income.
Every so often I will check to see if there are small parcels is for sale in Wyoming that would provide access to public land. There's one specific area where a subdivision backs up to a good size chunk of public land. Given Wyoming's public roads, access to this particular parcel is limited. While there's not landowner tags available the unit is a sure draw for pronghorn and every few years I could hunt elk since access is limited.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Just looked up the regs... you need 1280 acres primarily used for agriculture purposes, if its' primary purpose is 'recreation' ie hunting it doesn't qualify. Also it only gets you .9 pref points when you apply it takes a least 2 pts to draw most units and you can only draw a tag every 3 years... seems like a huge investment to occasionally have a chance at an elk.
npaden
Well-known member
Another thing to be aware of is how the property is being treated for property tax purposes. A recreational property would most likely be taxed at market value vs. a property that is being held for agriculture purposes is generally taxed at a much lower value. In areas of the country where the agriculture value is marginal this can make a very big difference on how much property tax you pay on it.
I have a 160 acres property here in Texas that is considered agriculture use that I pay less than $400 per year in property taxes on. If it was taxed based on the market value of the land it would be over $3,000 per year. Each state is going to be different on this and have more strict or less strict requirements on what they consider agriculture use. That would need to factor into your decision making process as well.
I have a 160 acres property here in Texas that is considered agriculture use that I pay less than $400 per year in property taxes on. If it was taxed based on the market value of the land it would be over $3,000 per year. Each state is going to be different on this and have more strict or less strict requirements on what they consider agriculture use. That would need to factor into your decision making process as well.
Straight Arrow
Well-known member
Furthermore, in Montana even as a property owner you must establish residency in order to take advantage of relatively lower hunting license, tag, and permit fees for residents. You may not merely say you are a property owning resident ... much as one particular political aspirant has done and may soon regret as he faces court action.
Well nobody can say that you all didn't come to the conversation prepared. I know that the idea doesn't make sense just because the rules are up to change at any point in time and you could lose your hunting rights. Being that I live in Ohio it would be fun to have a shack on your own property for hunting. Obviously not worth it with the states regulations. I plan to keep playing by the rules like everybody else but I still also plan on fantasizing about it, too.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Same in CO, my wife and I moved to MT for a few years while she was getting her masters and I had to pay the full non-resident price to get a license with her family's CO landowner voucher.
Kearnsie14
Active member
I understand your desire for private land. I'm from Ohio too and in OH unless you've got private land on which to hunt, forget it. Public land hunting opportunities here are virtually non-existent so people guard private land hunting opportunities here like a dog guarding a bone. I think Ohio is particularly bad in that respect and we're so used to that being the case that we come to think that it must be that way everywhere and that owning private must be the only way you'll ever be able to hunt anywhere. However, in researching how things are done out west over the past couple of years, I've learned that it's a whole different ball game out there. The push out there is to spend your time and money through conservation efforts to 1) preserve opportunities to hunt on extensive amounts of public land, and 2) create opportunities to add to the already extensive amounts of public land. I also think a previous point made is a great one...it's actually more cost effective (and you'll have way more fun) to take what you would have spent on land and spend it on pursuing hunting opportunities in various states out west (guided or otherwise).
belshawelk
Well-known member
I have land in E Oregon. Depending on the unit you may be able to get LOP tags every year. Some units are every few years. My unit I can get 2 LOP cow ( 3 month season) or Bull ( week long) and 2 buck tags for week long season. My unit is at objective for animal population. Its a tough unit to hunt cause its so big and so much private that the animals have many places to go. In Oregon they set aside a percentage of tags every year as LOP tags for landowners. Depending on tag allotment depends on if you will get one every year. I have gotten mine every year. and harvest or have had opportunity about every other year. You get opportunity for 2 tags for every 160 acres in separate ownership. I have 641 but its in one chuck so I get 2 tags. I could split it up so my wife owns 160 and each kid owns 160 and get 8 tags, but I think that greedy and silly.
PrairieHunter
Well-known member
First off I am not suggesting you do this. The OP asked a question so I gave him an answer. If you are not interested great.
Elk hunting in Nebraska is different than other areas, the bulls get really big on ag land and with so few tags the age structure is much different than most areas. I know several people who have shot 350+ bulls in Nebraska, and a couple approaching the 400 range. A great tag every 3 years is a amazing opportunity to many people. 430 Bull killed in NW Nebraska a couple years ago for example. https://omaha.com/outdoors/eighth-g...cle_e55e0a7c-b736-11e6-97d1-2f0e78230c8b.html
Land in Nebraska is almost all primarily used for AG purposes, that is a non issue. Simply graze some cattle or do some farming/hay on the property which will also provide some income.
The other big difference is land is affordable in Western Nebraska compared to recreational property in places like Colorado. Some large pieces still sell for less than $1,00 per acre and offer great hunting opportunities and liberal tags if you want friends and family to be able to hunt antelope, deer, or turkeys. Completely opposite situation from Colorado where you will pay tens of thousands per acre for land. Between a lower initial cost (right now wheat, corn, and cattle prices are not pushing property values) and getting some of your investment back on grazing or farming it could pencil out a whole lot better than other options.
For elk landowner tags the NR requirement is 1280 acres, for residents it's only 320.
As mentioned Ag land has much different tax requirements as well.
In Colorado one tax loophole I have read about is claiming it's a "tree farm".
https://csfs.colostate.edu/forest-ag-program/
NM E-plus system is going thru a complete overhaul & review right now. Public comment online is ongoing.
I just went to NMG&F meeting where the proposals were presented.It will still go thru the open public meetings before going to the G&F Commission for presentation & possible vote,& we will not know which proposal they have decided on to present.....right before an election. After which a new Commission will be in place...can you say FUBAR? G&F was suppossed to do full reviews every 4 years & hasn't since before '09,that I know of.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Prairie Hunter... No doubt^ I was just suggesting that the 128k you spend ($100 acre * 1280) not including + taxes + tag cost+ insurance etc. you could go on an amazing elk hunt ever year, and see a bunch of different and spectacular country. I'm assuming like everything it's hit or miss if the elk are on your 320 during the season (when you are there) and you are stuck with just hunting that spot.
If you want to own your own slice of heaven to take the kids, retire to, and occasionally hunt it's a great plan... I'm just saying if you have money to burn and you just want a big elk, buying property is a dumb strategy to achieve the goal.
If you want to own your own slice of heaven to take the kids, retire to, and occasionally hunt it's a great plan... I'm just saying if you have money to burn and you just want a big elk, buying property is a dumb strategy to achieve the goal.
I would never buy real estate for the purpose of hunting. You could however make a wise investment in real estate which is an appreciable asset that just so happens to have good hunting. But I would certainly search for the combination of the two instead of just focusing on a spot to hunt
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